At the moment Im in Doha (I arrived yesterday from Iten) and I stay for about 2 weeks, at first for Gymnasiadi, secondly for planning the next season.
I suppose to be in Iten again about 20th December. Of course, you can tell your athlete to come to see me about that period, he can stay home and work with some of my group, no problem about this.
Hi Renato,
In another post you said:
"3) Top athletes are able to use very high intensity. For doing this, they need a very big base. That's the reason because I ask to everybody a very high mileage in the first phase of their career, order to build their "aerobic house". But the final goal is to extend the intensity, in order to last longer.
4) Intensity and volume are strictly conneted one another. One must be the support of the other. If we go for long slow run for long time (for example, 4:00 per km), after we go on track for running fast (for ex., 400m in 58"), tr is no connection between the two training, and long run becomes useless after short time. So, volume and intensity have to grow together, till a BASIC volume, without which is not possible to be an athlete of top level. I don't think is possible to reach the best for an athlete running less than 160 km per week in 1500, 180/200 for 5000m, 220/250 or 10000m."
How would you reccomend a westener build up to these mileages and gain this big base as the majority of westeners probably aren't or haven't run anywhere near these volumes?
Do you think progressing to something like 12-16km in the morning and 12-16km in the afternoon most days per week would be useful? (12-16km/12-16km)
Obviously things like the 8-10 x 100m after runs could be incorporated aswell as tempo/long interval sessions when necessary before moving towards more specific training once an athlete has the necessary base.
Your information has been great, we look forward to hearing more.
Thanks
Renato,
I am a 34 year old who started running consistantly 18 months ago. I have ran off and on prior to this but not really enough to count it. In the the last 18 months I have worked up to 90-100mpw, Am I to take it this is to much in that period of time? Would I be better cutting the mileage some?
Renato, what are approximate paces for your long easy, long steady, and long medium runs? And what is the purpose of each?
Thanks again for all the information you freely share with us. This is by far the best thread I've seen for training the non-elite runner. Thanks!
neanderthal dream wrote:
Renato, what are approximate paces for your long easy, long steady, and long medium runs? And what is the purpose of each?
Thanks again for all the information you freely share with us. This is by far the best thread I've seen for training the non-elite runner. Thanks!
I would venture to guess that they are different for different people. Long easy is probably exactly what it sounds like (easy). Long steady is certainly no faster than the aerobic threshold (or "marathon pace")--it is probably somewhat slower. And long medium is definitely somewhere in between. I doubt the specifics are important.
Canova's recommendations hearken back to Lydiard's schedules, where he would prescribe 1/4 effort, 1/2 effort, and 3/4 effort for training runs, where "1" was an all-out race.
We normally use percentage of the pace of 10000m, or of Marathon (depending on the event where you want to compete).
This can be the percentage :
Long slow Long medium Long fast
10000m `` 70% 80 %%`` 85% 90 %%`` 95%
Marathon < 75% 85 %%`` 90% 95 %%`` 100%
These are the distances :
Long slow Long medium Long fast
10000m 20 %%< 20km
In any case, this is not the only type of training. We must run faster than the race pace using intervals of various length, and we must use very short sprint uphill for building up the mechanical system.
The right combination of these elements can create a good training plan.
What is important is NOT TO DO EVERY DAY THE SAME THING.
Adaptation is against stimula, and without stimula there is no training. The difference between TRAINING and RUNNING is very big, not everybody understands this.
Renato,
Would you be able to explain what you meant by the following quote? How can specific training develop the general training in white runners?
"So, I speak about SPECIFIC TRAINING, knowing very well that our main problem is HOW TO DEVELOP BASIC AND GENERAL TRAINING, years ago natural product of the system of life, now something we have to develop in precise way.
Under this point of view, the secret for a correct beginning of the activity is tu use SPECIFIC TRAINING FOR DEVELOPING THE GENERAL TRAINING. It seems a nonsense, but is really the key for coming back at top level for hite runners."
Thanks
Renato,
I understood the chart for pace but did not understand the chart for distance.
These are the distances :
Long slow Long medium Long fast
10000m 20 %%< 20km
Could you try again? Thanks
You have reason, something happened after I wrote, so I write again in different way.
10000m
Long slow 70/80 % of PB 20 / 30 km
Long medium 85/90 % 15 / 20 km
Long fast 90/95 % 10 / 12 km
Marathon
Long slow 75/85 % of PB 30 / 45 km
Long medium 90/95 % 20 / 35 km
Long fast 95/100 % 15 / 25 km
I hope in this way it's possible to read.
I can read this version. Thanks
Thank you, Renato, for that clear advice. I intend to follow it (and starting now, rather than waiting for the summer). I appreciate that you're saying training for non-elites is different in kind (and not only in speed) from elite training. A few small questions, in case you have time for them.
1. When you say "steady," does this mean a pace that is between "easy" and "medium"?
2. In the third month, every week will contain one tempo run, one hill fartlek session, two sessions of 8x100m, at least one long medium run, at least one long steady run, and many long easy runs. Correct?
3. Does "tempo" mean the same as "long fast" (perhaps 95% of race speed)?
4. Although you are certainly right that I don't train correctly, I'm not so sure about "young athlete." I'm 41 years old, though I can't claim to have gained much wisdom in that time. Anyway, are there any adjustments that someone my age should make to your schedule?
Sorry--since it's on a different page, I should have quoted the post to which I was replying.
Renato Canova wrote:
Gimpy, it sounds like you are not following correct training plan for best results. When I hear young athletes talk about training they do, I listen very closely to words. The words I hear from you are "tired", "injured", "confused", and "unhappy". You must listen to my words clearly my friend. The biggest problem that you have is you do things in wrong order. How do I know this? Very simple. The words you use to describe your training give me picture of your training plan. Yes it is true that I don't know exactly what training you do. But trust me Gimpy, you do things wrong way.
Here is my advice. And other people give their advice, and you decide what you want to do. But as for Renato, here is my advice for Gimpy.
Take summer months, June, July, and August. For 8 weeks you do three types of runs. Long easy runs, long steady runs, long medium runs. I make this very simple. You know what these paces are. It is time to be simple. Build your kilometers each week. Start with many long easy runs, then progress to some long steady and long medium runs. In July add 8x100 meters two times per week. In August you add tempo runs one time per week, maybe 8k - 10k runs, also it is important that you add hill fartlek workouts in August one time per week. Everything else is long easy, long steady, and long medium runs. This three month cycle is very simple and easy. Why does Renato write workout plan for me that is not extreme, and complicated, and the same as he writes for his world class athletes? My friend, the reason is that the answer to your problem is to get simple, not complicated. Too many young athletes try to copy Shaheen or Kwalia workout plan. This my friend is very stupid. You need simple plan. You have simple plan. Now do it and stay healthy. This is not science that is molecular, it is common sense training. Gimpy my friend, when you get to 13:00 for 5k then we talk about rocket science training. But for now my friend, this will help you stay healthy.
Gimpy, my friend, you can use this three month cycle at any time of the year. I just give example with months of June, July, and August because I know in American system, this is the time of year for build up of kilometers. It is ok to use this three month cycle starting in December if you like.
One problem sport of running have is that terminology mean different things to people all over the world. For example, athletes that I coach, I use words like facile (easy), saldo (steady), medio (mdium), and ritmo (tempo). In Russia terms are different, and in English the words are even more different. So please forgive my poor English because this is not first language for Renato.
I try explain again for you. I have woman that runs 15:20 for 5k. During this three month cycle she runs easy long runs with pace of 6:20 per mile, steady runs at 6:00 per mile, and medium runs of 5:40 per mile, and tempo pace for is 5:20 for each mile. This woman spends many kilometers between easy pace and tempo. Sometimes my friends, the best coaches in the world, they don't take good advantage of this pace that is between easy and threshold. When I read article of some coach, and they say that they believe in the method that is hard/easy, I want to cry for them.
So please remember Gimpy, this pace that is between threshold and easy, it is very very important pace for aerobic development. Don't confuse my words. I do not say for you to run long and slow for 3 months. I say use these paces that I tell you, and you will improve very much. But if you run all training long and slow, you will become a long slow runner. And this my friend is no good.
Renato could you give us more information about where this medium paced running comes in to play and why you you do not agree with a Hard/Easy method. Are these medium paced runs you are referring to the ones that Western runners are lacking in? Are these medium paced runs also hitting a persons threshold?
Thank you for sharing your knowledge with everyone here.... greatly appreciated!
I can give science talk for many hours about this subject but sometimes my English words confuse the person who is reading. So I try to make simple these theories.
I take these three paces that I mention to you, long easy, long steady, and long medium, and this is my way of as you call it "base training". And I do this for three months. My friend, I also mix training that is tempo and hill fartlek. I believe sometimes 8x100 meters that are hills is important. One day I have my athletes run 8x100 meters on grass, next day maybe they run this up hill. But first two months it is important to mix these three paces to get supercompensation base training. If you mix these paces in the right way, you will progress very much during next phase of training. This steady and medium pace that I talk about. This should mix with easy long runs. For instance, one day easy long run, one day steady long run, one day easy long run, one day medium long run. So you see, I always follow a steady long run with run that is easy. Athlete will need some tempo, el medio fartlek, and 8x100 during 3rd month of this training. I hope this theory is clear for you. I must go now.
Kremlin, I think Renato gave us an example of a female runner he coaches. It looks like her LT is around 5:20. Renato runs her a lot between easy pace and just under her LT. So it looks like he gets to within 20 seconds of her LT on these types of runs but he doesnt get faster. To me, these are sub threshold paces that all coaches should have their athltes run. And as Renato says, always follow one of these runs with a long easy run. This info is fascinating. Kremlin, you asked a very good question. And Gimpy did as well. And Renato came up and hit the ball out of the park with his outside the box training theory. Great stuff. Lets Run is awesome!
Why are you pretending to be Renato Canova?
Stop trolling and let the real Renato explain.
Renato, I'm sorry your name has been hijacked on this website.
Renato, How do these paces during the base phase apply to other distances? I am thinking about 800, 1500 and 3k in particular. Do you create the Easy, Medium and Fast paces all from their 10k PB or do you use their PB's from distances they intend to compete in? Thank you for you help!
THis is NOT the real Renato responding. You can tell by how he writes. Compare it to his prior stuff.