You have mentioned in many of your posts on this message board that an athlete needs to build up their aerobic house for about ten years to help them reach their full potential. You have also said that training should start off being more general and gradually increasing into specific training for a certain event. Do you think it is possible to increase mileage quickly (for instance year one 60-80km/week average, year 2 120km/week average, year 3 160km/week average) or is it better to be more gradual when building mileage? It seems being too gradual will significantly delay the development of the aerobic system. Is it better to say get the most out of 100km a week then 115km etc or progress the mileage more quickly for best results?
Thanks in advance
Let injury be your guide.
rekrunner, you have no class.
You pose interesting question about training. My friend, the philosophy I always follow has been to give my athletes a plan for progress. Sometimes you see, people ask me about what my great athletes do for training. This question is not bad. But better question in my opinion is "how did your athletes make progress to what they train now"? "How many steps did they take to achieve this result where they can handle my training plan". You see, great training programs, they always have progress plan. Many people wish to have advice that makes them better in just few weeks. You want some magic workouts that will make you run faster results in just few weeks. No my friend, training does not work like that.
Training should be general first at the beginnning and then you make progress to more specific runs. Tell me my friend, how can you achieve great result when your aerobic capacity is weak and your endurance is not so good. Your gas tank will be empty very soon during a race. You must run many kilometers that are below lactate tolerance pace before you can try specific runs. I think running economy, yes this is important. You will want to have some hill workouts mixed in for strength purposes my friend.
I believe you can build more kilometers faster my friend if you are experienced distance runner with many years of work. If you are young and new to running then you will need to slowly build your kilometers. To answer your question, yes, it is ok to increase your kilometers very much per week if you have experience and you are not new to running. But if you are child or if your aerobic system is weak, you need to run less kilometers and do them the proper way. I always include two days every week of some rythmeh or what you call strides. 8-10x 100 meter sprints after long runs will help very much.
I must go now. World Cup draw is coming in one hour. I must see if my team will be in Group of Death or will they have easy draw.
Bravo, Renato, Bravo! Excellent reply, much for coaches and runners to learn from in there.
As a coach of several young runners myself, this is what I stress. Slow progression. Let the body become adapted to the new stress (i.e. mileage level or workouts) before increasing again. Learn to do what you do correctly, then you can add to it later. But if you don't learn the proper way at first, you will encounter many problems down the line.
This is not always a popular viewpoint, as our society tends to bread impatience. But then again high level running isn't for everyone.
Thank you so much Mr. Canova! Your words of wisdom have helped me during my 6 years of coaching at the high school level. I find it reassuring that you do not believe in some quick fix or some new running fad that will make you great in a few moths. It takes years to be great as you noted. I am also happy that you confront the question of "what workouts can I do to make me great"? I tell my athletes that the workouts that Geb and the other best distacne runners in the world are a result of what they did to get to that point. Doing the same workout as Meb is meaningless because you have a volkswagon engine and he has the Jimmy Johnson Chevrolet engine. Thanks again Renato. You are the best!
ya thanks a lot. that was great.
Are you aware there are countries that don't have English as a first language? Now it is your turn to write some sentences in Italian...
English is not his first language. Besides, the content behind the words is what is important.
I hope I'm not stepping into a troll trap.
Renato, thank you for sharing. I am glad you are still posting here.
Could you give some examples of progression, from beginning runner to world class, considering this progression is possible.
Rochester Rick wrote:
Renato, with all due respect sir, am I suppose to listen to your advice on running? You can't even put a sentence together to save your life. My 3rd grade son writes better than you my friend. How about this. Why don't you take some classes on writing first. And then you can lecture us on your training methods. BUt for now, I dont take advice from 2nd graders sir. And you, my friend, have second grade sentences.
As a Rochestarian myself, I'm embarrassed by this post. RC is one of the most knowledgeable and accomplished people on this board, and for someone whose first language is not English, and does not speak it on a regular basis, he does a remarkably good job of getting his (very valuable) training ideas across.
I am sorry Rochester Rick if my English is not so good. This is not my first language. I will try to do better in the future. Here is some of my philosophy.
I want to explain again the base of my phylosophy.
a) We have 2 different engines : mechanical (muscles) and bioenergetic. Our mechanical engine is the structure of the car, bioenergetic, that regards the internal systems (cardiovascular apparatus, enzymatic system, etc), is the engine of the car. So, like in a formula 1, we have to develop both engine and structure in well balances way. If we have a very strong bioenergetic engine, but our structure is not strong enough, we cannot use PRACTICALLY our metabolic quality, because we are not able running fast enough. At the same time, if we have a very powerful structure (for example, a thrower) not supported by the organic engine, we cannot last at high speed for the total duration of the race.
b) In the GENERAL PERIOD, we must work for increasing our qualities, with separate goals. During this period, we must train both our lacks and our talented qualities, in order to reduce the first one and to enhance the second.
So, we must carry out specific training for increasing strength, general resistance, ability, frequency, cohordination, flexibility, etc, WITHOUT ASSEMBLING THESE QUALITIES in combined way.
We need to increase strength, in order to become faster during the competition season ? We use light weights (if we have), short sprints uphill, exercises for muscle strength.
We need to increase general resistance, in order to build a better base for developing specific endurance ? We go for long run, increasing for 4-5 years both duration and speed, without going in very fast execution.
We need to increase local resistance, in order to build a better base for developing lactic capacity ? We go for circuits with different stations, carried out at high intensity, using gym and not specific exercises.
c) In the FUNDAMENTAL PERIOD, we put in our training some SPECIAL type of training. Special is a training that is not fully connected with the event, but is propaedeutic for the SPECIFIC event. For example, for a runner of 800m, 3 x 600m at 98% of speed (for an athlete having 1:50, we can suppose a passage in 1:22.0 = 13.7 every 100m. So, 98% of this time is (13.7 + 0.3)= 14.0, meaning 1:24.0 in 600m) with 6/8 min recovery, is SPECIFIC, 10 x 600m at 90% = 1:30.0 with 3 min recovery in SPECIAL, 15 x 600m at 75% = 1:42.0 with 1:30 min is FUNDAMENTAL, 12 km at 3:45 pK is GENERAL
d) In the SPECIAL PERIOD, we increase the intensity of everything, preparing our body for SPECIFIC TRAINING, that we have to carry out at intensity of 100-105% related to the speed of the race.
e) In any project of training, we never can lose what already we have. So, staying too long time without training some quality is ALWAYS a mistake. Today, it's not possible to apply Lydiard system, because the athletes have to compete frequently. If in 1960, without indoor activity, Peter Snell or Herb Elliot had a long period only for training without competing (the duration of summer season was very short), and they could use 3 months only for long run building a big aerobic base, now we must modulate our training in different way. An athlete ending the season with 1:45 in September, in December must be able running in 1:47, not in 1:52, and this means that he has to continue to train speed (climbing) and dynamic qualities ALSO when the main goal is to develop AEROBIC RESISTANCE.
d) If an athlete is able to reach a level of 20 mml, during winter ALWAYS must be able to reach 18, not only 12. Remember that too much training in slow run can develop the enzyme SDH, that face the enzymes LDH and CPK. So, we must always to use some training for maintaining at high level our ability in producing LDH and CPH.
e) But, if an athlete has an AnT of 16 km/h, he must use the GENERAL PERIOD for raising to 17 or 18. So, he has in any case to increase volume and speed of his long run.
f) When you go to the competition season, you have to maintain the basic training, changing the percentages of every type of work. You must remember that, if we go for something SPECIFIC, we produce a lot of lactate. Our problem is the ACCUMULATION of lactate in our fibres, not the high level. For example, if you are able to reach a level of 20 mmol running 400m in 48, and also 20mmol running 800m in 1:48, the quantity of lactate in your fibres is not the same. So, for removing the lactate produced in 400m, reaching a level of 6 mmol, you can spend 2 hours, for removing the lactate produced in 800m you need one day (these are examples, don't think that this numbers are the same for everybody).
g) In order to aid a quick removal of lactate, your level of AEROBIC POWER (AnT) is fundamental. Athletes with a high AnT are able to remove their lactate quicker than athletes with low AnT.
h) In order to develop your max. specific quality, you must be FRESH in your mind and your muscles. When you work for increasing your ability in ACCUMULATING you can be tired, but this can happen only in General and Fundamental period. When you qork for increasing your ability in PRODUCING you must be Fresh, this happens during SPECIAL and SPECIFIC PERIOD. Therefore, athletes can have care in recovering before going for a training of high quality. When you go in SPECIFIC season, you use more intensity (and remember that the intensity in middle and long distance is a specifism of EXTENSION AT THE SPEED OF THE RACE), consequently you must use more recover.
COMPETITIONS ARE THE HIGHEST QUALITY TRAINING.
i) When you use max intensity, you empty your nervous tank, so before the next workout in the same direction you need to fill it again. MEDIUM INTENSITY TRAINING is the key for filling your tank after a high intensity training or a competition
Can you give us your thoughts on a young runner staying in the general and fundamental phases of training during their early years without ever venturing into full on specific phase training. The thought process would be to use the early formulative years to build the basics and fundamentals phsyical development and then only enter the specific phase later on when have matured and have major championships to peak for.
Your thoughts on this?
Great comments as always Renato. Many thanks on behalf of we coaches and students of the sport who read these posts.
I actually had a question as well. Your comment that traditional Lydiard training is no longer as applicable as it once was is interesting, and most likely accurate.In a similar fashion,many of us coach 18-20 yr olds that come to us with under-developed aerobic base. Realistically, most of these athletes will not devote 5-8 years to build their base, and we as coaches know that they will probably only run 5-6 years in total.Therefore, do we accelerate their base as best we can with as much tempo and special endurance as they can tolerate, or should we simply shorten the general base phase to 1-2 years? (I don't think any North American 18 year old would accept the advice that he should train aerobically only until age 23 and then start racing.)
That is not Renato posting.
Renato thank you very much for all the training info you share with us. It is greatly appreciated.
That is NOT Renato posting. The second post is a copy of an old Renato post. And it's not me either, but some clown who likes to troll.
That is NOT Renato posting. The second post is a copy of an old Renato post. And it's not me either, but some clown who likes to troll.
Don´t tell me you´re that stupid.
Thanks for your wisdom. I was wondering if the fast-type 800 runner would have trouble with some of the workouts you outlined in paragraph c). In particular, the 10 x 600 at 90% of 800 pace with 3 minutes rest looks tough. Would you modify these workouts for the fast-type 800 runner?
In other posts, you mentioned Billy Konchellah doing something like 4 x 300 in 35 with 6 minutes rest and Cram doing something like 10 x 300 in 40 with 45 seconds rest (I may have some of the numbers wrong.) You said that the Konchellah type could not do the Cram workout and should not try to do it. Should the Konchellah type ever do 10 x 300 but with more rest? Should the Cram type ever do 4 x 300 faster than race pace?
Finally, what is another word for propaedeutic?