Rojo says he might start a Kip Litton thread but only 1 and only 1 thread

I was pondering this running home from work yesterday- I'm convinced (as I think we all are) that this guy is a cheating machine, but as too how he does it, who knows.

Perhaps he only goes for the blatant, all-out cheat in races where he knows that there are only a few mats to hit, and manages to bike/drive to them, then hops in late. If he gets accosted dropping out and getting in a car he shrugs and says his knee is killing him and he's dropping out, then drives off. Unless he's tailed (which would be almost impossible), he just drives to here no one saw him get off the course, then walk a few blocks concealing his number, then start running (you always see people running along a course, getting in their run while spectating, running with a friend, etc), then pull off the top shirt to reveal the number again (I just was cold at the start, I was planning on ditching the top shirt when I warmed up...).

I could see this working the majority of the time- especially for smaller races, who can't get the mat-a-mile that NYC can. Perhaps races (those that can afford it) should start having a few (or even one) random mats that are placed at a non-standard spot (not a mile marker, 5k, 1/2, or anything standard), that is not announced ahead of time. Or just rely on the LR community to catch them, which seems to be working here...

Boston is a difficult course to cheat on and in 2010 Kip didn't miss any mats and the intermediate time are believable. I actually have to give credit to this guy. It's very well executed!

So I think there are 2 possible scenarios for Boston:

1) He pays a sub-3 runner to run for him with his chip. That's the easiest way but not sure that fits the profile of a narcissist and someone who likes total control like he seems to be.

2) He registers as a bike volunteer to get all the mats along the course and cross the finish line. After the finish, he gives back the bike, changes, walks back along the course and jumps in the last mile or so to have at least a few pictures taken. Maybe he registers under a fake name or one of his aliases, David Litton or else.

I thought about the bike because on his Facebook wall he talks a lot about riding his bike. BTW, his wall is closed for privacy today.

Pictures of volunteer on bike at Boston 2010 (from Boston.com):

http://www.boston.com/sports/marathon/gallery/2010/reader_photos?pg=20

http://www.boston.com/sports/marathon/gallery/2010/reader_photos?pg=123

West Wyoming Marathon

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Remember though -only 3 photos of kipster, while those who finished within a second of him all have 20+.

Golden State Runner wrote:

Also, the races where he changes shoes could be due to the attached D-Tag. I'm not sure if this suggests that he has an accomplice who he switches off shoes with?

at Cox Providence Marathon which was where he switched shoes, they used a tag in the bib number, i think it was called a C-Tag instead of a D-Tag

Boston is the most intriguing race to me, because it's a no loop coarse, so he can't really cut the coarse. He hits all the mats at reasonable splits. The main weird thing about it is no photos except at the finish. What was his chip time vs gun time? Was it suspicious at Boston 2010?

ok folks, may have found something interesting.

Take a look at this Boston Photo:

http://jimrhoades.com/10/boston/30k/image705.html

Right around the 30k mark, that has gotta be Kip hugging the shoulder. That girl hit the 30k 49 seconds ahead of kip, but chip times match up at the finish to where she started about that far ahead. By his marathon foto, looks like the same watch:

http://www.marathonfoto.com/order_packages.cfm?OID=12902010S1&CustomerNumber=Y48K25&BFI=9z2rx1h7kn&DTS=MjAxMTAxMTMxMTAwNTg=&Currency=USD&Language=EN&PictureInfo=70075505

Now, was he hiding to get over a mat? I am gonna keep digging.

Note: the 2 photos have 2 different hats and the men look a little different. We could be looking at a 2 man operation similar to the movie The Prestige

ronner wrote:

Boston is the most intriguing race to me, because it's a no loop coarse, so he can't really cut the coarse. He hits all the mats at reasonable splits. The main weird thing about it is no photos except at the finish. What was his chip time vs gun time? Was it suspicious at Boston 2010?

You decide.

1811 Litton, Kip M.D. 48 M Davison MI USA

Checkpoints 5k 10k 15k 20k Half 25k 30k 35k 40k

0:20:00 0:39:39 0:59:20 1:19:41 1:25:30 1:42:18 2:02:00 2:22:14 2:42:44

Finish Pace Projected Time Official Time Overall Gender Division

0:06:34 2:52:12 630 591 44

Liptodakip wrote:

Remember though -only 3 photos of kipster.

Indeed. Based on the lack of pictures, it appears that KL did NOT run 98% of the course and did NOT cross the finish line. However his time was registered with a net finish of 2:52:xx. How's that possible?

1) Someone else (with a different bib number, or no bib number) crossed the finish line for him

2) KL crossed the finish line in disguise, perhaps as a volunteer

3) Crazy thought, but hey, KL hacked the results. He seems to know enough about computers and he's obviously a smart guy. A "Catch me if you can" type of guy.

What should be reviewed: the finisher video at 2:52:xx + 5? minutes.

FWIW this website has photos of runners at Boston at a few spots during the race:

http://jimrhoades.com/10/boston/

Of course there's no way to search by bib number so it's a manual search. Plus there's no guarantee that he gets a shot of every runner passing by.

I'm also intrigued how he managed Boston. I ran it in 2010, and just checked- 30 shots of me on marathonfoto. Many from last mile, but also a lot from a stretch around 13-15, and a few where they managed to ID me despite my arm partially obscuring 3 of the 4 digits of my bib-number. It was cool that day, so conceivably he could have had a long-sleeve on earlier that obscured the bib-number, but since he likes to pin it over his crotch it would have to be more of a dress vs a shirt. I also don't think he could have gotton a bike on the course (without having it be an "official" one- which would be impressive planning)- maybe at smaller races you can get away with riding along, but they are pretty strict there.

If this was the only suspicious performance, I'd be inclined to buy the idea that it was legit, just obscured the number the rest of the course with a shirt, and he really did run it. But given all the other bs, it's hard to swallow.

It would be interesting to see if someone could replicate these proposed cheating methods. Definitely the bike pacer one. That seems entirely doable especially if the chips are really that sensitive.

I have found that the easiest way to break 3 hours is to actually run it, and pace somewhere under 6:52/mile. Crazy, I know.

Does anybody remember that episode of Monk where a marathon runner attached his chip to a pace car, ran off course, killed some guy, and got back on the course to finish the race? Maybe that could have been a source of inspiration (minus that whole murder thing). It was pretty slick. Combined, we form a power far greater than any Super Sleuth Monk Detective Crime Fighter Guy. Okay... I'm getting carried away with this.

Lastly, about these multiple race weekends he does. The Michelob Ultra Challenge in Tampa, the Whale Challenge in Virginia Beach and that 5k thing in Boston. Most marathoners shy away from those on grounds that they fear it may negatively effect their marathon time. The few that sign up take it as a neat challenge. However Kip sees it and says, "Hot $H!&, I can cheat a several races this weekend!"

road rashed wrote:

ok folks, may have found something interesting.

Take a look at this Boston Photo:

http://jimrhoades.com/10/boston/30k/image705.html

Right around the 30k mark, that has gotta be Kip hugging the shoulder. That girl hit the 30k 49 seconds ahead of kip, but chip times match up at the finish to where she started about that far ahead. By his marathon foto, looks like the same watch:

http://www.marathonfoto.com/order_packages.cfm?OID=12902010S1&CustomerNumber=Y48K25&BFI=9z2rx1h7kn&DTS=MjAxMTAxMTMxMTAwNTg=&Currency=USD&Language=EN&PictureInfo=70075505

Now, was he hiding to get over a mat? I am gonna keep digging.

Note: the 2 photos have 2 different hats and the men look a little different. We could be looking at a 2 man operation similar to the movie The Prestige

Anyone else get the creeps looking at that pic?

not my regular screen name wrote:

Indeed. Based on the lack of pictures, it appears that KL did NOT run 98% of the course and did NOT cross the finish line. However his time was registered with a net finish of 2:52:xx. How's that possible?

1) Someone else (with a different bib number, or no bib number) crossed the finish line for him

2) KL crossed the finish line in disguise, perhaps as a volunteer

3) Crazy thought, but hey, KL hacked the results. He seems to know enough about computers and he's obviously a smart guy. A "Catch me if you can" type of guy.

What should be reviewed: the finisher video at 2:52:xx + 5? minutes.

Or as the pictures from the post above yours suggest, Kip was following his usual "hide the bib under his clothing" strategy, and jumping off the course to drive/bike the occasional 5K segment. Giving yourself just 2 breaks and cutting a marathon by 10K would give you a huge advantage, while still allowing you to hit all the mats. This would make it a one man job only requiring that a pair of bikes be chained up along the course the day before. There are long segments of the race that have parallel side streets begining around mile 16, which would make this very easy to implement and to miss the most difficult part of the course.

Here's the action sequence of the above photo:

http://jimrhoades.com/10/boston/30k/page59.html

The two different caps is interesting. Why be that sloppy or why even cahnge.

dukerdog wrote:

West Wyoming Marathon

Where your dreams become reality

Is the West Wyoming Marathon the new Commander's Cup?

kip does pop out of no where in that sequence