He's not wasting his money on marathons
Is it true you lack the opposable thumb required to type a capital letter. Only joking!
I seen to remember you saying the same about GebWet! I can't be bothered to copy & paste that name.
Let me know when he sets the WR or has the kick to match Mo or bottle to drop him. I would actually love to see the latter, is he man enough?
BTW what was Moorcrofts solo 13:00.41 worth? Don't let me down
I would like to see him in the 10000. Perhaps he and Karoki can push. Karoki did it a bit with Masai in 2012 but to no effect. If they commit to it froma ways out it would be great for the 10000. Karoki and Tanui have been the best Kenya has had lately. Kipsang looks to be stronger than Karoki so maybe it will translate to a track 10000.
Who would push the pace for Ethiopia in a 10000?
As said prior, only one track 10k a year that pays, World or Oly year you have two on the track. No money, why run is the attitude. Appearance money is peanuts on the track for distance guys. Unless you have a world record attempt loaded with a big bonus, the math is simple.
Road race money can be lucrative, marathon money is huge.
How many times you have stated similar things for Kenyan marathoners or half marathon runners?
For right now, he is just a proven capacity for half marathon and cross country. He just beat Karoki by 8 seconds. Check Karoki's PB. Heck, Edris never even ran a distance as long as that before and was also not far away.
Please, stop all these comments about the future of Geoffrey : his road is very well decided, already.
You need to know something more about the guy, before speaking about what you don't know :
1) Geoffrey had Always in his mind the Marathon, already when he was 18.
In 2011, we were in Eugene for Prefontaine together. I was there for the record of Moses Mosop on 30 km, and Geoffrey was with me, because his coach Patrick Sang (with whom I have great friendship) asked me to follow him in that period. Geoffrey ran 27'06" in 10000m, and one week later had the program to run 5000m in NY.
We went on track, 3 days after his first race, and I asked him to run 10 times 600m in 1'35" with 1'30" recovery. He was together some other Kenyan of the Group of Ricky Simms (Mark Kiptoo, Moses Masai and Mike Kigen), they went for 5 times trying to open the recovery till 2', and Always was Geoffrey stimulating them to start again. After 5 tests he remained alone, and started to run in 1'33" recovering about 1' only.
I gave him 5' rest, and after I asked him to run 5 times 300m in 42", with recovery of 3', only for doing some speedwork, since normally he didn't use to run fast. Geoffrey ran the first in 43", I started to speak together Lineth Masai without looking at the track (controlling the watch for calling Geoffrey at the start some second before his 3' of rest), and I saw Geoffrey passing on the track in front of mine when my watch indicated less than 1' after the finish of the previous test. So, I could see him running all the 300m in 43", but with a recovery of 100m jogging only in less than 30".
3 days later, he ran in NY in 13'12", and that one was the only time he went on track for something fast.
2) He Always showed big attitude for long distances, and wanted to run HM when still junior not for money, but because he supposed could be, at the moment, his best event (how the training he had with me in Eugene clearly showed : only athletes with great "mental endurance" can cut the recovery time in the way he used to do), and in any case the event he liked more.
He was also a perfect pacer for 30 km in the Marathon, at the pace of WR, the same year, enjoying the race, and this brought him to ask to run a Marathon in short time.
3) With Patrick and the managers (both Jos Hermens and Valentijn Trouw) we spoke several times about the fact that was too early to start the preparation for Marathon immediately, and could be better to stay some times in shorter competitions. However, the mind of the athlete was projected on running Marathon, and we had to wait his "normal" results for convincing Geoffrey to do a step behind, looking at cross and 10000m as main events at this time of his career. The advices of Eliud Kipchoge, in this process, were very important, since he is like the elder Brother of Geoffrey, wonderful person with great education and respect for other people.
4) Now, the plan is clear (we discussed about this with Geoffrey after his victory in Guiyang) : 10000m for WCh this year, World HM in the spring 2016 and 10000m for Rio, of course if he is able to qualify. His come back to Marathon is planned from 2017.
We don't know where Geoffrey can arrive in 10000m with proper and specific training (he never did before) : of course, under 26'30", but I don't know how much "under".
I think the record of 10000m is a weak record, compared with the record of 5000m. Kenenisa told me that, both the times he bettered the WR in 10000m, he was not in his best shape, and really he NEVER prepared 10000m in specific way. So, in spite of his medals (more in 10000m than in 5000m), Kenenisa was a specialist of 5000m running 10000m without specific preparation, and this explain the difference between the double of his time in 5000 (12'37") and his WR of 10000m (26'17") : 1'03", frankly too much for a REAL specialist of 10000m.
I think Geoffrey can stay inside 40". This means that, if he becomes able running 12'55" in 5000m, can run 26'30", and, if able running 12'50", can run 26'20".
The advantage of Geoffrey is that he's a front runner, and doesn't need rabbits in the last 3-4 km for running at his best.
Interesting challenge. I agree he can be the athlete giving new lymph to the event.
600m reps far more impressive than the 300m ones to me. Was the session at altitude - this would change things a lot.
I've observed sub 15 min 5km runnners with 1:53/4 speed or just mile/800m runners off same doing 8 x 300m 100m jog walk (mainly jog) recovery & them all in 43xxlow plus faster 800m specialist runners (sub 1:50) do them all well under 40. The endurance based runner with sub 1:50 speed can do the in under 40. There is a big difference between doing 300m reps to 400m just as on 200m reps the speed increases dramatically
Even the endurance based runners -sub 15 5km -would struggle to get too close on the 600's times you gave with short recoveries. Running 1:39- to low 40's
300m reps Do not indicate track speed even close to rival Mo on track. Uneless he has improved from that session or could if not marathon focused. I really don't understand how he has speed to go sub 13 myself- must have phenominal endurance. Still I'm sure Bekele or Geb at peak could have done that 300m session in 39 and slowing to 41/2 doubled it. For those saying he would rival records of faster runner like these and with as good 5/10km speed endurance I don't see any way he could rival them or their times on the track if the money was there and not on marathons
I'm bored with the marathon, the first hour and usually hour and a half is only good for a snooze. I want to see runners on the track. How people can watch marathon for hours on tv but not have patience for 10km on track is beyond me.
I didn't speak of the tests (300m) of Geoffrey as indicators of his speed, but about the fact he preferred to reduce the recovery time I purposed him, instead to run faster the tests. This for explaining his type of mentality : Always he preferred training for endurance than traning for speed, and 5 x 300m in 43" with 30" / 40" of recovery is a work more connected with the Aerobic System than with the Lactic system.
We well know 5 x 300m in 43" is nothing exceptional, but remember this was immediately after 10 x 300m in 1'35" > 1'33" with recovery near 1', and this is a significative and hard training, for an athlete 18 years old, 3 days after running in 27'06".
His speed is similar the speed of Lasse Viren, able to win Olympic Games two times in 5000m (1972 and 1976) using a tactic which seemed the best for losing the race : to accept a slow 3000m (about 8'25") at the beginning, but after this going in front for the last 2000m increasing his pace with continuity, Killing, in this way, the kick of athletes very much faster than him (from Liquori to Quax).
With Mo Farah, running the last 2000m under 5' is not enough : already in OG of London the final was well faster than that time, 4 athletes were able to do this, but nobody could face Mo. But we don't know what can happen running the last 5000m in 13'05". If in his best shape, Geoffrey can use a tactic like Haile, Kenenisa and Sileshi in Paris 2003 (2nd half in 12'57" !), and the final result is in God's hands.
Thank for commenting.
How do you compare him with Muchiri (Karoki), Kitwara or Masai? He beat Karoki today but Karoki has 'only' been good for 5th or so at WC and OG.
How do you differentiate?
I'm not a fan of Farah, but fact is he's the man to beat until someone beats him. I have no doubt if he needs to run 26:30 to win the 10000 then he'll do it. He ran something like 26:45 years ago and he has definitely ascended to another level since then. 3:28, 59:30?
Renato Canova wrote:
I didn't speak of the tests (300m) of Geoffrey as indicators of his speed, but about the fact he preferred to reduce the recovery time I purposed him, instead to run faster the tests. This for explaining his type of mentality : Always he preferred training for endurance than traning for speed, and 5 x 300m in 43" with 30" / 40" of recovery is a work more connected with the Aerobic System than with the Lactic system.
We well know 5 x 300m in 43" is nothing exceptional, but remember this was immediately after 10 x 300m in 1'35" > 1'33" with recovery near 1', and this is a significative and hard training, for an athlete 18 years old, 3 days after running in 27'06".
His speed is similar the speed of Lasse Viren, able to win Olympic Games two times in 5000m (1972 and 1976) using a tactic which seemed the best for losing the race : to accept a slow 3000m (about 8'25") at the beginning, but after this going in front for the last 2000m increasing his pace with continuity, Killing, in this way, the kick of athletes very much faster than him (from Liquori to Quax).
With Mo Farah, running the last 2000m under 5' is not enough : already in OG of London the final was well faster than that time, 4 athletes were able to do this, but nobody could face Mo. But we don't know what can happen running the last 5000m in 13'05". If in his best shape, Geoffrey can use a tactic like Haile, Kenenisa and Sileshi in Paris 2003 (2nd half in 12'57" !), and the final result is in God's hands.
Thanks coach Renato. Straight after the 600's and at 18 alters it completely What type of workouts times recoveries does he do know?
Now a request for some advice from the master:
----------------------------------------------------------------
How I can I persuade club standard runners (at lower level) to not step up to the marathon too soon? They just think further is better and are jumping to the marathon on mass an pretty much without exception often less than a year after taking up running in twenties/thirties. Other in the club encourage the further is better mantra. Performance at the lower distances then stops improving and all they do is learn to run a better marathon of the 5/10km times they could have far exceeded. Am I just wasting my time attempting to try as I feel like I might as well just stop coaching at the club
Renato, on a tangent, will you please please please^100 write a book? You don't even need to tell people how to train or why, just tell us all your stories. And do not let anybody edit it! Your choice of English words makes your style really powerful to read. Total fan boy, I love it.
Thanks coach Renato. Straight after the 600's and at 18 alters it completely What type of workouts times recoveries does he do know?
Now a request for some advice from the master:
----------------------------------------------------------------
How I can I persuade club standard runners (at lower level) to not step up to the marathon too soon? They just think further is better and are jumping to the marathon on mass an pretty much without exception often less than a year after taking up running in twenties/thirties. Other in the club encourage the further is better mantra. Performance at the lower distances then stops improving and all they do is learn to run a better marathon of the 5/10km times they could have far exceeded. Am I just wasting my time attempting to try as I feel like I might as well just stop coaching at the club
----------------------------------------------
Anyone else with advice on this?
Renato Canova wrote:
only athletes with great "mental endurance" can cut the recovery time in the way he used to do), and in any case the event he liked more.
Thanks for these informations. Nevertheless, is this "mental endurance" really something one is born with or is it acquired during training? His mental attitude towards shorter recovery times on that day might have resulted from the type of training he had been doing before. I can imagine that when you do a (half)marathon training then you are changing not only your body but also your mind, and when someone then tells you to do some speedwork you're not prepared both physically and mentally.
Maybe if he devotes the next two seasons to track his mental attitude will change.
wtfunny wrote:What's ridiculous is the assumption that Idris' form last year implies, at all, anything whatsoever about Kipsang's current 5000m time
nonsense
ethiopians try & send best ~ 10k guys to meet
for them to send idris indicates he was one of best 10k guys they had regardless of no 10k pedigree
he maya run well at their trial
Idris was not #1 over 5000m last year
nonsense
screw t&f rankings
idris crushed caleb in stockholm with 12'54.8 world lead v 12.59.1 for caleb
that's number 1 in anyone's book
Idris 5000m time on a track says little about his XC
performance
nonsense
his 5k world lead showed class
to be picked for x-c shows the selectors had evidence he was a serious threat over 12k
Idris 5000m time last year says little about his current fitness
nor the hell does it for any other guy in the field who had a '14 clocking on the track
but idris had best 5k clocking of anyone in the field from '14, which means something
"(Idris) was worth well below 12'50 flat-out, so i think geoffrey woud [sic] be at least as quick"
This might be one of the most illogical, silliest, comments on LRC yet
nonsense
this is same scenario as mo running 3'28 off 5k/10k training
you are most clueless guy here
learn to think
Taking your (il)logic further:
Gebrehiwet ran 12:47 in 2012, yet Idris crushed him today; ergo, Idris could break Bekele's wr or 12:37
utter nonsense
that geb has run rubbish in 13'06sb in '14
he only got in x-c meet because of his rep
learn to read :
13'06 in '14 !
But he'd be far behind Kipsang who breaks the 12:30 barrier
utter nonsense
read above
NB; next time, for further effect, use words like "quagmire" and "sodden", and phrases like "dead on his feet" and "on his deathbed".
utterly inept
quagmire/sodden are apt aphorisms for the despicable mulch Ryun ran his 46.9r 440y relay in at just 18y with 3'55+ in his legs from few hours before
so bad, that lj runway had to be replaced with a conveyor belt
don't ever talk nonsense again about subjects you had no clue whatsoever about until i posted them here
I'm surprised you can't remember how ridiculously over-raced and traveled Caleb Ndiku was last year. He wasn't at his best.
Kapcherop wrote:For your information, Kamworor has said he is suspending his marathon ambitions and instead focus on the half marathon to see what the distance has for him
that's a nonsense statement
he couda already broken 1/2M wr 2+y ago in that arab 1/2M of 58'50+
they jogged the 1st 5k & just hammered more & more to finish
2+y ago he couda run 1/2M wr along with King Mutai
This is a very intelligent move from him
no
it's a slow move
it shows inept management
he was capable of all this in '13
i said he coud run 26'15 / 26'20 that day in that arab 1/2 M shape in '13
he's wasted 2y on M
The training for both Half marathon and 10000m training are very much the same
no
1 needs speed training
1 needs endurance training
guess which needs which ?
And judging from what Florence Kiplagat, who is also coached by Renato Canova has been able to do, Kamworor is headed for BIG things!
i said that 2+y ago after that 58'50+ but G2K wasted his time on M
G2K is a resurrection phenomenon, not new
he is most powerful kenyan 10k runner i have ever seen
This year and next year Mo Farah should be prepared because the two 10000m championships will be won in 26'40" or faster
sadly i hoped that 2y ago for moscow
G2K had no interest back then in 10k when he couda busted wr
he may be even close to now
26-flat
By early 2017 half marathon WR will be under 58'00", courtesy of Geoffrey Kipsang Kamworor
it's not a impressive number nor much interest
sammy wouda done it nearly decade ago if some pacing
however, i say now
G2k :
serious shot at
26-flat
jjjjjj wrote:
I'm surprised you can't remember how ridiculously over-raced and traveled Caleb Ndiku was last year. He wasn't at his best.
Vent remembers what he wants to remember. He forgot that Ndiku spanked Idris in the only other 2 5000m races iris entered last year.
wtfunny wrote:Vent remembers what he wants to remember
nonsense
i remember good
He forgot that Ndiku spanked Idris in the only other 2 5000m races iris entered last year
completely clueless
stockholm was 1st big match up
caleb got hammered !!!
it means nothing if he won later
he was supposed to be in top shape in stockholm but got crushed by edris
Mo is on a tear this year , as long as he stays healthy I dont see ANYONE beating him in a championship race
ventolin^3 wrote:
He forgot that Ndiku spanked Idris in the only other 2 5000m races iris entered last yearcompletely clueless
stockholm was 1st big match up
caleb got hammered !!!
it means nothing if he won later
he was supposed to be in top shape in stockholm but got crushed by edris
Stockholm wasn't the "first big matchup". It was the first, and only, race Idris beat him. Zurich was a bigger race, as it is every year. And Caleb won, as well as winning the DL series.