400m Training for an Adult

For the 400, at your race pace it is heavily aerobic compared to when you ran 51 in HS. So your training must take that into consideration.

Also, if you start by pressing your speed development too hard too soon, you risk damage to connective tissues, which in my experience will not strengthen as rapidly as your muscles -- in other words, a lot of speedwork might result in muscles that can run faster, so you run faster and suddenly tear a tendon. I've been there. It's especially risky, I think, for someone who ran fast years ago; your body may start to remember how to run fast before those connective tissues are fully ready.

And a long, gentle warmup is going to be way more important at age 40 than it was as a teenager, before ANY fast running.

What kind of mileage have you been doing, how much are you willing/interested in doing, and how important is it to be able to run a fast mile as part of this training plan? Also, what would be a fast mile for you?

Check out this link:

https://www.stack.com/a/feed-the-cats-how-to-help-track-athletes-stop-hating-their-sport-and-start-running-faster-than-ever

I love the ideas in here.

As an almost-40 myself, I’ve started adding just a little raw speed work into my routine. I was more middle distance, got to run the open 100 and 400 once each back in the day, 12.3 and 54.4 FAT, which explains why only once ?). Ran 57 flat as recently as age 27, haven’t tried since and took a long (decade plus) break from any running. Only been back at it a year.

I regularly do strides (my version, slow-acceleration to 800 ish pace, hold for 10-15 secs, ease down). Just started adding some faster stuff, done two sessions for 4x max speed while staying completely relaxed. Full recovery 3-5 min between. Only stayed there a couple a seconds and then bring back down. Took 3 days to stop feeling achy the first time I tried that. Only to 2 days when I did again about 2 weeks later. We’ll see how the next session goes.

Hoping to time trial (race!?!) a 400 later this summer if I can get on a track.

Good luck & hope you get some useful advice!

You might want to read Bud Winter's monograph "So You Want to Be a Sprinter," available on Amazon for about $20. He was to sprinting what Lydiard was to long distance running.

Sub-8 Mile wrote:

For the 400, at your race pace it is heavily aerobic compared to when you ran 51 in HS. So your training must take that into consideration.

Also, if you start by pressing your speed development too hard too soon, you risk damage to connective tissues, which in my experience will not strengthen as rapidly as your muscles -- in other words, a lot of speedwork might result in muscles that can run faster, so you run faster and suddenly tear a tendon. I've been there. It's especially risky, I think, for someone who ran fast years ago; your body may start to remember how to run fast before those connective tissues are fully ready.

And a long, gentle warmup is going to be way more important at age 40 than it was as a teenager, before ANY fast running.

+1 to all of that. Guy knows his stuff.

Thx Drbop, When I searched for it, also came across this site, with an article about masters sprinting

https://foreverfitscience.com/sprinting/does-sprint-performance-decline-with-age/

Interesting reading, thanks right back.

joghard.blogspot.com

Lucho/Tim made some tremendous improvements with a very pointed approach to 'succeeding" at the 400m. This comes a few years after he won the Leadman competition - a contradictory discipline/set of events.

Thanks a lot for the useful information everyone!

Sub-8 Mile wrote:

What kind of mileage have you been doing, how much are you willing/interested in doing, and how important is it to be able to run a fast mile as part of this training plan? Also, what would be a fast mile for you?

I've not been doing a lot of mileage lately, but in the last 7 years I've had periods of running 40+ mpw (was super competitive at obstacle races), but don't love long slow runs - but if that's part of the formula I'm willing to run 20-30mpw. The fast mile isn't as important, more like a nice to have. A fast mile would be anything below 5:00, but a good first goal would be below 6. I ran a 5:55 mile as recently as 5 years ago, but wasn't training specifically for it.

I also play soccer 1 or 2x per week, so I'm not totally out of shape by any means. I also lift weights 3x per week (compound lifts).

chaated wrote:

Sub-8 Mile wrote:

What kind of mileage have you been doing, how much are you willing/interested in doing, and how important is it to be able to run a fast mile as part of this training plan? Also, what would be a fast mile for you?

I've not been doing a lot of mileage lately, but in the last 7 years I've had periods of running 40+ mpw (was super competitive at obstacle races), but don't love long slow runs - but if that's part of the formula I'm willing to run 20-30mpw. The fast mile isn't as important, more like a nice to have. A fast mile would be anything below 5:00, but a good first goal would be below 6. I ran a 5:55 mile as recently as 5 years ago, but wasn't training specifically for it.

Ok. This approach may seem objectionable to some, but from what I'm hearing re your fitness/goals/history, I think it would work. I propose a regimen that is a hybrid between exercising for fitness and training for track.

Weekday Runs: 4 miles plus 4-8 x 100m strides, depending on how you feel. No sprinting or fast strides/accelerations, just smooth turnover.

Weekend Hard Session: Plenty of warmup and stretching first! 4 x 800m for one month. Then 3 x 600m for a month. Then, you've done enough 'base' to begin to alternate the following:

A) 600, 400, 200 with 5 minutes recovery.

B) 4 x 150m with 10 minutes recovery.

Give it time, keep it consistent, and you'll get faster. Go crack 60!

So you were able to run a 51 second 400 in HS.

Now I would like to know:

Why do you want to run a 60 at all, if you did a 51 already?

And then, why just 60 - the equivalent for a 40 y old to a HS 51 would be more like 53...

After all, why not just do something similar to when you ran 51, maybe a bit less intensity and more recovery - higher consistency, though? You should break 60 and even 55 in no time. You have been there - just remember and apply common sense. And don't be afraid!

This is fantastic and is pretty close to where I had landed based on your previous advice and some of the other posts! Thanks a lot for your help!

Partridge wrote:

So you were able to run a 51 second 400 in HS.

Now I would like to know:

Why do you want to run a 60 at all, if you did a 51 already?

And then, why just 60 - the equivalent for a 40 y old to a HS 51 would be more like 53...

After all, why not just do something similar to when you ran 51, maybe a bit less intensity and more recovery - higher consistency, though? You should break 60 and even 55 in no time. You have been there - just remember and apply common sense. And don't be afraid!

Partridge - While that seems like a common-sense approach, it just isn't as likely to work for a 40yo who hasn't run much for a few years and whose current speed is something like 15.0 100m, 33.0 200m. We're talking about a completely different athlete with a different body and different training considerations. After a year of training and running significantly faster times, maybe OP could train more similarly to those old HS workouts - maybe.

However, yes. I agree that OP should be able to get back below 60, possibly mid-low 50's over time. It will take work and it will be a good challenge ... as to why someone would want to do this when they have already run 51 -- well, this is an entirely different challenge, yet tantalizingly familiar. Masters runners understand this.

OP, maybe I'll see you on the track sometime. I'm 45 and recovering from cancer. I ran 50 in HS, and I am also going to try to break 60 once I get stronger.

As for the reasons, over the last 10 years I've done weight lifting, distance running, and obstacle racing. None of them scratch the itch that track scratches. It's kind of just something in my bones, i can't really explain it. I'm someone who needs a competition to train for, it's hard for me to be motivated to exercise just for the sake of health.

I was looking for shorter races, like 1 miles, but there wasn't much below 5K. I recently stumbled upon the world of masters track and field and it met all of those things: sprinting, competition based, and there seem to be at least a few regularly scheduled events to train for.

Long term I'd love to run faster than I did in HS, but I also realize that there are steps to get there. After I break 50, I'd love to break 55, and then start eyeing the lower side of 50.

chaated wrote:

I recently stumbled upon the world of masters track and field ... there seem to be at least a few regularly scheduled events to train for.

Check out:

USATF Masters Indoor Track & Field Championships (annually, in March)

USATF Masters Outdoor Track & Field Championships (annually, July or August)

To qualify, just submit proof of age and register for your event(s) & age group. If you're terrible, no worries, you won't medal but the sport is about participation so everybody is really welcome. If you're awesome, it's an inspiration to everybody and it's an engaged, passionate crowd of masters athletes and their friends/families who are cheering. Everybody has a good time, nice well-run meet with a healthy spirit of competition and very friendly & supportive.

Also, World Masters Athletics has Indoor and Outdoor Championships, every other year.

Sub-8 Mile wrote:

chaated wrote:

I recently stumbled upon the world of masters track and field ... there seem to be at least a few regularly scheduled events to train for.

Check out:

USATF Masters Indoor Track & Field Championships (annually, in March)

USATF Masters Outdoor Track & Field Championships (annually, July or August)

To qualify, just submit proof of age and register for your event(s) & age group. If you're terrible, no worries, you won't medal but the sport is about participation so everybody is really welcome. If you're awesome, it's an inspiration to everybody and it's an engaged, passionate crowd of masters athletes and their friends/families who are cheering. Everybody has a good time, nice well-run meet with a healthy spirit of competition and very friendly & supportive.

Also, World Masters Athletics has Indoor and Outdoor Championships, every other year.

I also live in Georgia, where we have a State level masters championship annually, and 1-2 other meets per year with active participants. I'm psyched!