Vaporfly/Next%/Alphafly - Elite vs. Amateur

Hobby jogger marathon pace for men is elite/sub-elite for women. The shoes are unisex, there's no specific version for women or men. They don't discriminate, if you're running (not jogging) it does not matter much what pace you're running in them.

I think they should be used for racing only. I hate when people train in them. I think that comfort is the main thing to decide on whether to spend $250 on a racing shoes or just buy a cushioned trainer for a marathon especially if you do not plan to run faster than 4-5 hours in the marathon.

ELong1229) wrote:

I think they should be used for racing only. I hate when people train in them. I think that comfort is the main thing to decide on whether to spend $250 on a racing shoes or just buy a cushioned trainer for a marathon especially if you do not plan to run faster than 4-5 hours in the marathon.

There are people who train in them?!! That sounds insane, except for maybe 1-3 20+ mile LRs leading up to the marathon...they also don't last as long as other shoes, correct?

(never worn them so I don't know)

Rhodium Nights wrote:

ELong1229) wrote:

I think they should be used for racing only. I hate when people train in them. I think that comfort is the main thing to decide on whether to spend $250 on a racing shoes or just buy a cushioned trainer for a marathon especially if you do not plan to run faster than 4-5 hours in the marathon.

There are people who train in them?!! That sounds insane, except for maybe 1-3 20+ mile LRs leading up to the marathon...they also don't last as long as other shoes, correct?

(never worn them so I don't know)

I got some, I've trained in them a couple times just to get used to them (long intervals and tempos), but I haven't used them too much, probably 25 miles in total.

They're so expensive and apparently they don't last too long so I'd like to save them for racing. They are extremely fast though!!

Rhodium Nights wrote:

ELong1229) wrote:

I think they should be used for racing only. I hate when people train in them. I think that comfort is the main thing to decide on whether to spend $250 on a racing shoes or just buy a cushioned trainer for a marathon especially if you do not plan to run faster than 4-5 hours in the marathon.

There are people who train in them?!! That sounds insane, except for maybe 1-3 20+ mile LRs leading up to the marathon...they also don't last as long as other shoes, correct?

(never worn them so I don't know)

AJ has a pair w 100s and 100s of Miles and he is a big dude. They are much more durable than people think

I had a fantastic HM in the Next% at 5:51/mile, and a great MP run in them at 6:22/mile. I agree they feel odd at easy run pace, around 8:00/mile, but even at a leisurely (for elites) 6:22/mile, they felt fantastic. So the limit, if there is one, is somewhere slower than that, at least on my feet.

Seth DeMoor loves the shoes but believes that the Alphafly loses some bounce by 75 miles. (But it could be because his legs were dead before he started his virtual marathon.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0KoUVgHnaU

On a related note about using this Nike line for training -- when I was on a neighborhood walk yesterday, I saw a sub-hobbyjogger "running "in Hoka Carbon Xs.

Joshua Cheptegi seemed to get around just fine in them running 4:08 pace for 5K... I don't think the lower limit for Next%s is anywhere in the realm of what we need to think about. Maybe for elites running less than 5K they're not ideal but I think for amateurs and sub elites they are ideal across the board. I hear Alphaflys are really only good for MP. It'll be interesting to see how that perception changes once more people get hands on them.

I can vouch that they provide plenty of benefit all the way up to at least 7:30pace (1:37 HM PR in them).

They'll be faster at any pace compared to 99% of other shoes that are heavier, less responsive, less cushioned and less stiff.

ELong1229) wrote:

I hate when people train in them.

"Hate"? You mean like this?

BmoreRunner wrote:

Joshua Cheptegi seemed to get around just fine in them running 4:08 pace for 5K... I don't think the lower limit for Next%s is anywhere in the realm of what we need to think about. Maybe for elites running less than 5K they're not ideal but I think for amateurs and sub elites they are ideal across the board. I hear Alphaflys are really only good for MP. It'll be interesting to see how that perception changes once more people get hands on them.

David Nilsson runs a decent 5k road in the Alphafly.

A litte OT: Nilsson (2,10 marathoner) is quite a profile who runs around 40 races every year. If we want to make running more interesting to the general public the elites need to race more often.

I train in these when I feel like I will be going at faster pace and want to preserve my legs. Of course people train in these, how many alphaflys or vaporflys are sold vs races run. They are really fun shoes to run in, why is everyone going to stupid crazy about these shoes, it is ridiculous and just a dumb echo chamber in here.

Vaporfly loses it for me after 120 miles, 2 pairs. The Adidas Pro on the other hand is fantastic. I'll be staying with Adidas from now on, i think they could do with take at least an Oz of the weight.

At paces around 7 min/mile they provide about a 20s/mile benefit.

They definitely aren't "fine tuned' for elite marathoners.

I actually think they provide more benefit at somewhat slower paces as the foam takes time to rebound and your ground contact time has to be longer than this to get maximum benefit.

Something I don't get, is everyone says these shoes feel worse at easy pace, regardless of whether their easy pace is 6:30 or 8:30. How does that work? Is it just because you need to "engage" the shoe somehow when you're running?

Ho Hum wrote:

Something I don't get, is everyone says these shoes feel worse at easy pace, regardless of whether their easy pace is 6:30 or 8:30. How does that work? Is it just because you need to "engage" the shoe somehow when you're running?

Weird rocker thing feels bizarre when running slow. Notice it more in the Zoom Fly than the Vap’s but it’s there. Not sure why you’d want to jog around in ‘super’ shoes anyway.....

runrincerepeat wrote:

Rhodium Nights wrote:

There are people who train in them?!! That sounds insane, except for maybe 1-3 20+ mile LRs leading up to the marathon...they also don't last as long as other shoes, correct?

(never worn them so I don't know)

AJ has a pair w 100s and 100s of Miles and he is a big dude. They are much more durable than people think

I do 2 marathons per pair and then put them out to pasture for my long runs. I'm close to 400 miles on one pair, 250 on another, and they still feel great! Much easier on the legs than regular shoes.

knower of times wrote:

runrincerepeat wrote:

AJ has a pair w 100s and 100s of Miles and he is a big dude. They are much more durable than people think

I do 2 marathons per pair and then put them out to pasture for my long runs. I'm close to 400 miles on one pair, 250 on another, and they still feel great! Much easier on the legs than regular shoes.

I usually run 1 long run marathon WO and race 1 half prior to racing a marathon in my Vaporflys (approx 35 miles). After the marathon I will use them for other short races and up to 2 more halfs. They feel good enough for racing up through 150ish miles. Then I use them exclusively for WOs until around 250-300 miles.

I always like a fresh pair for a marathon. I am a 2:30 guy so I feel it is worth the investment, plus I always get a good deal, even on Vaporflys.

you must enter a username wrote:

At paces around 7 min/mile they provide about a 20s/mile benefit.

Lol, no. You may feel fast in them, which inspires you to run harder than you would in other shoes, but the actual benefit is a few seconds per mile.

Now, if you are running in non-Vaporfly shoes at a pace that's too fast, then you're likely to blow up and lose a ton of time. If Vaporflys would have made that pace appropriate, then the total effect on your time could be a lot bigger. But that's a different issue.