I am SICK of people saying keep things shutdown when they aren't starving or broke

At least in my state, a red republican state, we are lifting the stay at home orders but keeping the social distancing guidelines in place. Meaning that the expectation is that small businesses work with local governments to open in a safe manner.

My state was late to issue a stay at home order because we are a republican state. However, the blue state to the north of us issued one much earlier than we did. Initially it looked as if they would have better result, but they didn't. Sweden and Iceland have both had only moderate social distancing measures and their numbers are very much inline with other European countries.

The goal of lifting restrictions gradually is to find out how much of the economy can be open without causing another major outbreak. The government can't continue to print $6 trillion a month for a year or two or however long it takes to come up with a vaccine.

Georgia is allowing hair/nail salons and tattoo parlors to open this Friday. How can these types of businesses possibly open safely? It doesn't seem possible to be six feet apart while getting a haircut.

Which state do you mind me asking?

By the way Sweden’s numbers are far higher than their Scandinavian neighbors. Take a look for yourself.

I live in Tennessee. Kentucky is the blue state to the north that had significantly more draconian lockdown measures.

When the case was strong enough to get a conservative republican governor, like we have in Tennessee , to lock down the state the numbers looked like this...

If covid-19 is as contagious as the flu then we would expect 500k in the state to get it. Based on the available data at the time 10% of people who get it are hospitalized. In Tennessee we have a total of 25k hospital beds and a 50% utilization rate. This meant that we would need 50k hospital beds but only have 12.5k available. Furthermore, it is also thought that covid-19 was more contagious that the flu. So the 37.5k additional beds needed was a conservative estimate.

However as more research has been done... like the antibody testing in Santa Clara County where the estimated that 40-80x as many people had antibodies as there were confirmed cases (implying a hospitalization rate of 0.125% - 0.25% vs 10%).

When you factor in the preliminary antibody research and that at Sweden, who hasn't implemented strict lockdowns, not having a healthcare system overwhelmed to anywhere near the extent as was feared, a case can be made to begin opening up the economy.

Shame on the state！Shame！I am with you. I dont care about the virus if my father Isnt able to bring bread for dinner！I dont care Its irrelevant How the ... mm can you shut down everything？

Maybe the professor can still keep having a Job sitting with his ass at Home and making online lessons... What about baristas，waitresses，small agricultural businesses... How are They gonna survive without jobs？Without income？

People need work to eat and make a living. Maybe It doesnt concern them. Its not their problem which explains why They have Caused this misery. Shame on them. And Shame on us all of us who have let the state dominate our rights.

I am from Italy，I think people Here in Italy should not Go robbing the supermarkets，They should step.up on the parliament and destroy it！Shame on them.

Tennessee, cool.

Again, I know it is an inconvenient truth for you but Sweden’s numbers are NOT inline with their neighbors. A claim you messed up.

https://www.businessinsider.com/how-sweden-and-norway-handled-coronavirus-differently-2020-4

Ciro wrote:

Exactly, further undermining his argument that “in the United States, your quality of life is determined by you choices”.

Like you say most millionaires simply inherited it, little to do with choices.

Anyway, I expect real facts was just trolling.

The choices were made by the parents who became successful enough to pass down millions to their children. Which was the point. It's much more common for people in the US to be able to do that than in Europe.

Venonat wrote:

Ciro wrote:

Exactly, further undermining his argument that “in the United States, your quality of life is determined by you choices”.

Like you say most millionaires simply inherited it, little to do with choices.

Anyway, I expect real facts was just trolling.

The choices were made by the parents who became successful enough to pass down millions to their children. Which was the point. It's much more common for people in the US to be able to do that than in Europe.

But then obviously the choice was not made by the children, that was merely good fortune, not a choice situation at all.

Plus no ones taking elite lectures from a lad in Tennessee ?

Masks, hand washing, face shields and sterilization of the work area between customers. If done correctly, getting a haircut, tattoo, etc. can be no more risky than going to the store (which we allow). The virus laden droplets that everyone is concerned with are 5-10 microns in size which even improvised masks can filter out (a coffee filter works well). As long as you keep your mucosa covered (eyes, nose, mouth), wash your hands properly and avoid touching your face, you should be fine.

Ciro wrote:

Tennessee, cool.

Again, I know it is an inconvenient truth for you but Sweden’s numbers are NOT inline with their neighbors. A claim you messed up.

^^^ was not my claim. My claim is below.

the real facts wrote:

Sweden and Iceland have both had only moderate social distancing measures and their numbers are very much inline with other European countries.

Sweden's death rate is considerable lower that of England, France, Spain, Italy. So despite drastic differences in how they are combatting covid, they are not a statistical outlier for either Europe or the world.

The other more important point though, is that the healthcare system didn't need to multiply its capacity 3 or 4 or 5. That was the fear and why most people accepted the lockdown when they happened. It hasn't come to pass.

the real facts wrote:

Ciro wrote:

Tennessee, cool.

Again, I know it is an inconvenient truth for you but Sweden’s numbers are NOT inline with their neighbors. A claim you messed up.

^^^ was not my claim. My claim is below.

the real facts wrote:

Sweden and Iceland have both had only moderate social distancing measures and their numbers are very much inline with other European countries.

Sweden's death rate is considerable lower that of England, France, Spain, Italy. So despite drastic differences in how they are combatting covid, they are not a statistical outlier for either Europe or the world.

The other more important point though, is that the healthcare system didn't need to multiply its capacity 3 or 4 or 5. That was the fear and why most people accepted the lockdown when they happened. It hasn't come to pass.

It’s a dishonest comparison.

Why would you choose Italy, Spain or France when you can compare with their closest Nordic neighbors?

In fact it’s a bullsh!t comparison. For those interested in meaningful comparisons.

Ciro wrote:

Venonat wrote:

The choices were made by the parents who became successful enough to pass down millions to their children. Which was the point. It's much more common for people in the US to be able to do that than in Europe.

But then obviously the choice was not made by the children, that was merely good fortune, not a choice situation at all.

Plus no ones taking elite lectures from a lad in Tennessee ?

It doesn't matter whether the person who has the money made the choices. The money was earned via choices at one point, which is much easier to do in the US than Europe.

Billmax wrote:

Shame on the state！Shame！I am with you. I dont care about the virus if my father Isnt able to bring bread for dinner！I dont care Its irrelevant How the ... mm can you shut down everything？

Maybe the professor can still keep having a Job sitting with his ass at Home and making online lessons... What about baristas，waitresses，small agricultural businesses... How are They gonna survive without jobs？Without income？

People need work to eat and make a living. Maybe It doesnt concern them. Its not their problem which explains why They have Caused this misery. Shame on them. And Shame on us all of us who have let the state dominate our rights.

I am from Italy，I think people Here in Italy should not Go robbing the supermarkets，They should step.up on the parliament and destroy it！Shame on them.

The question you should be asking is 'why does my father have to jeopardize his health to bring bread for dinner while the professor has an income as he doesn't have to stop working?'

The answer is because the baristas, waitresses, agricultural workers have not been able to secure income protection rights as unions have been stymied- when this is over DEMAND THIS!!

We haven’t let the state dominate our rights we’ve let ourselves be totally negligent!

Venonat2 wrote:

Ciro wrote:

But then obviously the choice was not made by the children, that was merely good fortune, not a choice situation at all.

Plus no ones taking elite lectures from a lad in Tennessee ?

It doesn't matter whether the person who has the money made the choices. The money was earned via choices at one point, which is much easier to do in the US than Europe.

You said “in the United States, your quality of life is determined by you choices”

Leaving the grammar mistake to one side, that isn’t true in the particular example you are now peddling. In the case you’re describing your quality of life was decided by choices your parents or grandparents made and NOT choices you made.

It’s not that hard to comprehend.

Ciro wrote:

Venonat2 wrote:

It doesn't matter whether the person who has the money made the choices. The money was earned via choices at one point, which is much easier to do in the US than Europe.

You said “in the United States, your quality of life is determined by you choices”

Leaving the grammar mistake to one side, that isn’t true in the particular example you are now peddling. In the case you’re describing your quality of life was decided by choices your parents or grandparents made and NOT choices you made.

It’s not that hard to comprehend.

Hope that helps.

Ciro wrote:

It’s a dishonest comparison.

Why would you choose Italy, Spain or France when you can compare with their closest Nordic neighbors?

In fact it’s a bullsh!t comparison. For those interested in meaningful comparisons.

I think that it is a perfectly fair comparison to lump Sweden in with all of Europe. Because covid deaths are highly concentrated among refugees. Sweden resettled a very large number of refugees like most of the rest of Europe did. The other two Nordic countries didn't.

Ciro wrote:

Venonat2 wrote:

It doesn't matter whether the person who has the money made the choices. The money was earned via choices at one point, which is much easier to do in the US than Europe.

You said “in the United States, your quality of life is determined by you choices”

Leaving the grammar mistake to one side, that isn’t true in the particular example you are now peddling. In the case you’re describing your quality of life was decided by choices your parents or grandparents made and NOT choices you made.

It’s not that hard to comprehend.

If someone wants to raise their quality of life then they can make choices to do so and have the ability to more easily than in Europe. That is the point. You were clearly implying in your first comment that choices don't matter much in the US because a lot of people inherited money from their successful parents. That is wrong.

Also I didn't write the original comment you replied too.

Venonat2 wrote:

Ciro wrote:

You said “in the United States, your quality of life is determined by you choices”

Leaving the grammar mistake to one side, that isn’t true in the particular example you are now peddling. In the case you’re describing your quality of life was decided by choices your parents or grandparents made and NOT choices you made.

It’s not that hard to comprehend.

If someone wants to raise their quality of life then they can make choices to do so and have the ability to more easily than in Europe. That is the point. You were clearly implying in your first comment that choices don't matter much in the US because a lot of people inherited money from their successful parents. That is wrong.

Also I didn't write the original comment you replied too.

I have never said that choice does not matter, never. I was simply replying that choices are not the only factor in success and/or upward mobility.

Of interest, versus your perception.

the real facts wrote:

Ciro wrote:

It’s a dishonest comparison.

Why would you choose Italy, Spain or France when you can compare with their closest Nordic neighbors?

In fact it’s a bullsh!t comparison. For those interested in meaningful comparisons.

I think that it is a perfectly fair comparison to lump Sweden in with all of Europe. Because covid deaths are highly concentrated among refugees. Sweden resettled a very large number of refugees like most of the rest of Europe did. The other two Nordic countries didn't.

You started out with a BS argument and went downhill fast, ending with this.

You’ve gone from championing Sweden’s approach to blaming its failure on immigrants. A painfully weak progression.