Tinman Base Training Tips

1, Strides 2-3 times a week, do them on easy days.

2. Tinman normally ends workouts with hills work For example 7x3 minute@cv w 200 jogs then 5-minute easy jog to 6x30 second hills with walk-down rest.

3. Tinman tempo duration is 720/current 5k time. If you feel you in 18-minute shape right now do 40 minutes of TT then some hills. As you approach 17-minute shape that would be 42.5 minutes.

4. Adjust training based on what feels good and what works for you.

This document will help if you look at base and transition training.

http://assets.ngin.com/attachments/document/0116/3778/1600m3200mTraining.TomSchwartz.AllRightsReserved.pdf

thanks bro!

If you want to improve to 17 by summers end a much better way is the Dancan way by Coach js. Then you start with 12-20 x 400m at 5 k race pace every week , rest between reps about 1 min , and you add a LT-interval also every week to a total of about 5-7 miles.Very effective! Good luck!

The tinman plan is the worst thing you can do. It's not optimal and it is likely to cause you injuries.

Bruh it's been proven time and time again to work, and the whole idea behind it is creating a relatively easy base phase, never straining to hit times, and therefore reducing risk of injury.

TinBoy wrote:

Bruh it's been proven time and time again to work, and the whole idea behind it is creating a relatively easy base phase, never straining to hit times, and therefore reducing risk of injury.

Bruh it has not been proven time and time again to work. It has been proven to get mixed results. So if you want to roll the dice go for it. If you want a time tested proven system use the Lydiard system. Tinman is shiny and therefore is appealing to the niave.

makes you wonder wrote:

TinBoy wrote:

Bruh it's been proven time and time again to work, and the whole idea behind it is creating a relatively easy base phase, never straining to hit times, and therefore reducing risk of injury.

Bruh it has not been proven time and time again to work. It has been proven to get mixed results. So if you want to roll the dice go for it. If you want a time tested proven system use the Lydiard system. Tinman is shiny and therefore is appealing to the niave.

+1

JS, please post with your name. A fifteen year old kid who has a low mileage background does not need to do 20x400m. That’s WAY too strong of a stimulus and the fact that you think he should train similar to “your pros” shows you don’t know how to coach.

You train runners based on their background and where they currently are. Real coaches don’t follow recipes, they cook. You are the king of following recipes.

TinBoy wrote:

Bruh it's been proven time and time again to work, and the whole idea behind it is creating a relatively easy base phase, never straining to hit times, and therefore reducing risk of injury.

The only thing worse than tinman training are the tinman fanboys who say things like "bruh"

Ok, I was immature, and too confident in my sources. I'm curious why you think the Tinman methods don't work?

I went from a 17:15 ish 5k xc to 4:33 (4:48 as a junior) and 10:07 (11:26 as a junior) that track season doing Tinman style training. I’d say ease into it. I also went from 30 - 50 mpw (with random high weeks of 70+ that summer) to consistent 70 mile weeks, but about 55 in singles and the rest in doubles. The key is to go really easy while building mileage and not hammer workouts. Go by feel. I started out that winter (January) doing 30 min tempos at 6:40 pace and by the end of the winter I was doing it at about 6:20 pace. I also did CV reps, I started with 12x400 (90 sec rest) -> 14x400 (90 sec rest) -> 14x400 (75 rest) -> 14x400 (60 rest) -> 6x800 (75 rest) -> 5-6x1000 (200m rest, so about 80 sec). After tempos I’d do 4-6x30 sec hills and jog down + 1 min recovery. After CV I did 4-6x200 fast with 200 jog rec.

The biggest thing by far, is be CONSISTENT, set a plan, and stick to it. Take on off day when you need it, but just keep the ball rolling. Another thing, my doubles were EASY, just 2-3 mi @ 9 flat on the mill and my easy days were 7:30 - 9:00 depending on how I felt, but usually 8 - 8:30. Long runs were just 90 min easy.

Also, his rule of 720/5k for tempos or 420/5k for CV is a max workout, so if you do extra at the end (hills or 200s) you have to cut it back a bit. That’s why I did 30 min tempos, the goal is to get a good stimulus, but stay away from 100% optimal in a perfect world, aim more for 80% - 90% and you’ll need fewer down weeks/days.

Good luck!

SouthernFriedRealist wrote:

Jmans wrote:

If you want to improve to 17 by summers end a much better way is the Dancan way by Coach js. Then you start with 12-20 x 400m at 5 k race pace every week , rest between reps about 1 min , and you add a LT-interval also every week to a total of about 5-7 miles.Very effective! Good luck!

JS, please post with your name. A fifteen year old kid who has a low mileage background does not need to do 20x400m. That’s WAY too strong of a stimulus and the fact that you think he should train similar to “your pros” shows you don’t know how to coach.

You train runners based on their background and where they currently are. Real coaches don’t follow recipes, they cook. You are the king of following recipes.

You are wrong and Coach js is right. Look at Jakob Ingebrigtsen and some of the Kenyans js coach. They did this kind of stimulus early on.It's no problem to do it as long as you have a coach who knows how to handle the individual perfect paces correct. In the modern world of pro coaching we now have to reevaluate what we thought was right decades ago. It's no problem to create a young top runner this way if you just know how to proceed correctly up over the years.This way of coaching young runners with the knowledge of Art of coaching don't exclude that they get coaching where they currently are and based on their background.The stimulus they get is never too strong and always perfect individually calibrated.The modern way and the future way of top class coaching.Real coaches still have the millions of recipes in their heads through experience and just cook based on it with creativity.

And at last, please post with your name! Are you afraid to let people know your real identity ?

Workouts like 10xHill are not traditional interval training that will “burn you out.” Hill workouts are fantastic for base phase because they won’t burn you out. 10x60 seconds, 12-16x30 seconds, even up to 10x2 minute hills would be fine.

As another poster commented, Tinman’s training has gotten mixed results. His elite team has seen success but every single guy has been injured.

For a high school sophomore, and high schoolers in general, Tinman training works pretty well. But, it’s tough to judge. At that age you’ll improve from nearly anything, there are some really bad high school coaches with really fast runners.

For the next couple of weeks you’ll improve drastically if you just increase your mileage. 50-55 from 20 is a bit ambitious maybe start with 35-40 and see how that feels after a month or two.

Google/YouTube Jay Johnson SAM and do that routine a few times a week.

If you do 30-40 minute runs every day and a 60 minute long run on Sunday. Tuesday do 8x60 seconds or 12x30 second hills with an easy jog recovery. Monday’s and Thursday’s do some 15-20s strides, 6-10 of them. Start at 6. Add one each week. Friday finish your 40 minute run with the last 10 minutes a bit quicker. Stay relaxed. Stay within yourself. Don’t stress about pace. Try to feel it and learn your body. Don’t go too hard. If anything go easier. The most important thing you can do at your age is learn your body.

TinBoy wrote:

HS incoming sophmore.

1. When should I do strides?

2. When should I do hill work? What workouts? I've heard that hill work is used by tinman year-round, but I'm very wary of interval workouts like 10x a hill, as I get burned out easily with workouts like that.

I didn't read the whole thread to see if this is already answered, but

#1 - Tinman puts his strides in the middle of an easy run (not at the end like most people do). He says you want to end easy to let hormones go back to normal before the end of your run (argue that point with him not me). His stride days are like 20-40 seconds @ mile-3k or 3k-5k effort with 20 sec jog recovery inside a ~60-70 min easy run.

#2 - hill work is used frequently with longer key workouts and can range from ~30-60 seconds uphill @ mile effort with jog down recoveries. Usually this is the 2nd pace change in the middle of a longer workout. So you'd have something like (all continuous running and I'm giving you ranges of reps/recoveries) 20 min easy warmup, 4-6x 3-4 min @ cv w/ 30-60s jog recovery + 4-6x 30-60s uphill @ mile effort w/ jog down + 4-6x 10-20s @ 800 effort on flat ground w/ 30-45s jog recovery + easy run til x time (where x depends on your fitness level and where you are relative to your race).

Please understand that Tinman is a fraud. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. The fact that these threads pop up every week is proof that this man is just starving for attention. The reason that you don’t see these kind of threads every week from Bowerman or NAZ or Hansons is because they are all secure with themselves.

All of this. I concur. HS athletes (esp boys), you will improve just by staying healthy and running consistently.

Jgt11 wrote:

1, Strides 2-3 times a week, do them on easy days.

2. Tinman normally ends workouts with hills work For example 7x3 minute@cv w 200 jogs then 5-minute easy jog to 6x30 second hills with walk-down rest.

3. Tinman tempo duration is 720/current 5k time. If you feel you in 18-minute shape right now do 40 minutes of TT then some hills. As you approach 17-minute shape that would be 42.5 minutes.

4. Adjust training based on what feels good and what works for you.

This document will help if you look at base and transition training.

http://assets.ngin.com/attachments/document/0116/3778/1600m3200mTraining.TomSchwartz.AllRightsReserved.pdf

I found this part from the powerpoint amusing: "Note: The last two races were run 3-hours apart in the same track

meet. *Drew was instructed to run the 3200m @ 5,000m race effort,

which he did; it was not all-out."

Tinman is claiming Hunter hit 8:43 in the 3200 as a tempo run. Tinman is so full of s**t. He loves to brag about his coaching, he called Drew Hunter an average athlete with great coaching. He's a snakeoil salesman.

is this Timnam famous?

tin can man wrote:

I found this part from the powerpoint amusing: "Note: The last two races were run 3-hours apart in the same track

meet. *Drew was instructed to run the 3200m @ 5,000m race effort,

which he did; it was not all-out."

Tinman is claiming Hunter hit 8:43 in the 3200 as a tempo run. Tinman is so full of s**t. He loves to brag about his coaching, he called Drew Hunter an average athlete with great coaching. He's a snakeoil salesman.

No. He is calling 8:43 3200m as what it was - a 3200m race at 5000m race effort. At his high level, the difference between 3k and 5k pace is not that great (in absolute terms).

He never said Hunter is average, in fact he often called him talented. He said that each year, there are 10-20+ Hunter's out there in the US, but they are either not found and making it into T&F or they are not being coached properly.

If there is ONE thing, Tinman is good at it's developing training plans. Guy has studied this for 40+ years, and always references Lydiard, Bowerman, and 23432 other old-school coaches that pushed the training methods forward.

His system is proven and works. Success will always attract haters, weather it's a successful running YouTuber, successful HS sensation like Mary Cain, Efraimson or Lane or a successful coach.