Better 12 week base, high miles or moderate with workouts

AceofBase wrote:

Planning my 12 week base plan before starting a 16 week marathon training block (6 week build, 12 week specific).

Which would be more beneficial, high mileage without worrying about any faster paces and just running quicker on feel good days and backing off on crap days. Mileage would be the goal and in the 100-120 a week. OR do 90-95 miles a week with a tempo day, interval day and long run day?

Ultimate goal is knocking about 5 mins off current marathon pr. Thoughts?

Now would be a great time to improve your marathon potential by improving your 10k time (indirectly, by improving your threshold and your CV pace).

90-95 mpw is PLENTY for this, even 75-80 would be enough. One tempo, either shorter around HM pace or longer around MP, or super extensive intervals like 5x3 miles at HM/MP. One session should work your threshold directly (4-6 mmol), this could be 8-10x1k @10k effort/pace or 20-25x400 at 10k effort/pace or 6xMile at 10k+5to10s/mile. Also do some strides, but no straining or forcing just very relaxed running with optimal form.

GL! For each improvement of 1 min in the 10k, you can expect an improvement of around 4-5 minutes in the marathon.

What would you say the long run should be? With out a work out in it? 2 hours easy?

Yes, long run is not as important when improving/focusing on your 10k time.

~12 weeks before the marathon you start your marathon-specific prep. Then the long run (with quality) becomes the most important run (2h15m-2h30m), together with one high-volume workout (that should also be a very long run of 1h45m-2h15m). Rest should be very easy mileage, this is the most specific prep you can do to prepare your legs for the pounding.

But getting that threshold and 10k time up first is the important first step! A 40 min 10k guy will never run a full marathon faster than 3 hours without working on his threshold first.

90 minutes is fine for the long run, but 2 hours works if you're used to it. In my personal former-DI-hobbyjogger opinion, I think incorporating a workout into a long run is too stressful unless you have a long flat-ish bike path with minimal road crossings and ample mile markers. Even then it sucks the fun out of it. You can always pick up the pace if you're feeling good.

For OP's question, I also think 90 mpw with workouts is the best option. You need to maintain all your energy systems. Also plenty of pull-ups to keep your testosterone up.

Like you said, 1 day of threshold/tempo work and 1 day of speed (plus a long run) is ideal. For that speed session, train like a 400-800 runner and have fun with it.

Honestly, I think the best one will be what you're most excited about.

If you want to get out the door and roll some miles and do some progressions or fartleks when things feel good, do that.

But if you worry that training by feel won't work so well and you need a Tuesday Tempo and a Thursday track session with a weekend long run, then you should probably go that route.

This is just a super untested and somewhat new theory for me, but I honestly think training how your gut tells you to train is probably what is best for you both physiologically and psychologically.

Also, whatever you pick, don't be too wedded to the exact mileage totals. Hitting more or less on some weeks is fine. Just get the work in over weeks and weeks and months and months.

Thanks for the suggestions. Yea this week I did 90 miles with a 30 min tempo on Tuesday for one session, then a session of 400-800-1200's on the track Friday, and tomorrow will run 2 hours easy for the long run. Filled the rest in with easy mileage and coming off a week where I ran 120 (all easy) it felt pretty relaxed.