Tim Noakes\'s comment from Letsrun frontpage.

Bill Rodgers ran his PR in his 27th marathon.

No, he didn't. Get a f***ing clue Dan. He ran his PR in his 22nd marathon: Boston 1979. If anything, Bill Rodgers career supports Noakes point, although you're too dumb to see it. Rodgers may have run fast and he may have run plenty of races but he didn't run all of his races fast. He ran 5 marathons before he even broke 2:19, do you think those 5 races were "good" by any stretch of the imagination? In between the great races were plenty of clunkers, a few DNF's, etc. If you take out all of the races where he DNF'ed or finished +5 minutes outside his PR Rodgers had only run 10 Marathons before his PR, and if you take away the marathons where he finished +2 minutes outside his PR (and some of those races are on courses like Fukoka which are quicker than Boston) he only ran 6 races which might be considered "good" by Rodgers standards.

taken from article on letsrun.coms front page near the top for today:

-->He [Tim Noakes] touched upon Paula Radcliffe\'s failure to finish the Olympic marathon in Athens last summer. \"She could not biologically have won that race,\" he asserted. \"Because she was 12kg heavier than the Japanese girl who won, at 35 degrees centigrade and in high humidity, she was generating 20 per cent more body heat every kilometre. As long as there was a smaller runner capable of running a 2hr 20min marathon in the race, she was never going to win.\"

That is the dumbest thing I\'ve ever heard. We have seen people do the \"medically impossible\" in running countless times. I cannot believe this guru of distance running would make the timeless mistake of saying someone is incapable of winning a race. You would think Billy Mills in \'64, Salazar at Comrades (after his athsma diagnosis), etc. would have taught us a lesson. Not to mention Paula just won today, by the way...(and wasnt that same japanese runner in this one, too? not sur bout that though)

He was right about PR in that instance with the high temperatures. No such high temps in Helsinki.

In many studies of marathoners, it has been shown that the high finishers often have a high body temperature--in essence they somehow dissipate heat or at least are not as susceptible to it as others. So two runners who both hit 101 degrees F; one might not be able to tolerate it while the other can.

There was a lot of talk about how the heat would affect a bigger runner like PR and if you read Lore of Running, you wil l see that Noakes makes this point.

I think that the comment about PR and Ndereba possibly not doing well running 4 marathons within a year is the one that really should be shot down since they went 1-2.

The Japanese woman who won Gold was not at the WC--as the article mentions.

No, not the same Japanese runner as in Athens. But I agree with your basic point. People like Noakes overestimate their ability to extrapolate from physiological theory to real-world applications.

Forgot to mention that the courses were also quite different between Helsinki and Athens. I have not checked out the course profile, but I do not think there was much in the way of hills on the Helsinki course whereas the Athens course was quite challenging (even without the heat).

Also, Noakes said "biologically" not "medically".

Noakes is an overly self-righteous fool. "Paula nor Ndereba should be running in the WC marathon" citing some SHIT FROM THE 1950's. "If thats the way it was for that old guy, I guess its the same for everyone." 6 months to recover from one run. What a fool. I believe that they geared their training for THIS RACE above all others. I don't care what other work he's done, he obviously not capable of thinking outside the microbox that his mind is fixed in. The two that he said "shouldnt be running" finished first and second.

Tim Noakes book is great, I recommend it as the #1 running book out there that I've read, besides Pre

Who is Tim Noakes? I mean, what great runners has he ever helped to develop?

How sad. wrote:

Who is Tim Noakes? I mean, what great runners has he ever helped to develop?

you don't know who tim noakes is? please tell me you aren't a runner

Tim Noakes is very knowledgable, get his book Lore Of Running, you don't have to be a superelite coach to know what you are talking about

No, tell me. I know that he's written a doorstop, but what runners has he coached?

None, none at all. Not a single one. Therefore YOU should discount everything he has ever said, written or otherwise communicated base on this singular criteria. I, on the other hand, will continue to consider and evaluate his opinions with my own humble intellect and incorporate them with other source I value. A book as a doorstop? Another use might be to critically read it and evaluate it on your own.

He is not a coach. He is a doctor. He analyses runners from a physiological and historical point of view. His comments about how Radcliffe and Ndereba should not be running are right on, from his point of view, as he shows in his book, but that does not mean people have to take his advice. Paula Radcliffe will MOST LIKEly not ever run as fast as she has again, but I am sure she will win a couple more marathons. Who knows?

If you actually read his book, and THEN use it as a doorstop(it makes a good one by the way), you see his point proved time and time again by runners who run many marathons. Of course there will be exceptions, like Baldini, but that's what makes it all so interesting.

Just read his book. He backs up everything he says with evidence.

His "doorstop" is undoubtedly one of the greatest pieces of running literature. Not everyone influential to the sport has to be a coach

His book is the greatest training book for running of all time, it's got a lot of content!

You said it, not me. I asked a simple question, and the koolade drinkers get all up in arms.

Crazy enough, I have better use for my time. Guess the feeling isn't universal.

What are Noakes's PR's?

Michael Bautista wrote:

His book is the greatest training book for running of all time, it's got a lot of content!

This from the chump who has no clue who John Walker is.

How sad. wrote:

What are Noakes's PR's?

I don't know off the top of my head, why is it important?

What's koolade?