I think Snells was much more impressive. Thoughts?
I think Snells was much more impressive. Thoughts?
Daves Wottle wrote:
I think Snells was much more impressive. Thoughts?
Peter Snell?
Give Brian SELL some respect and get his name right, dufus.
Webb ran against much tougher competition. Webb had never made an international final. Webb led the thing in the latter stages. The WC for the 1500m is a pretty big event, it's the race everyone wantsto win each year over all else.
Brian Sell's run is impressive b/c it was a surprise. However, the WC for the marathon is not as big a deal as winning London in a fast time or Chicago or NYC or Boston.
I'd say Webb's accomplishment is more impressive.
anyone who thought sell's race was a surprise has had their head in the sand the last 18 months
I'm not going to argue whose was more "impressive," as you can cite stats to prove either point of view.
I WILL state that Sell's race was far and away the more intelligent of the two. Anyone who thinks Webb deserves more credit for his "bold" move at halfway probably thinks George Foreman deserved to beat Ali at the "Rumble in the Jungle" because he fought aggressively from the start instead of laying back on the ropes and conserving his energy for the late KO.
Look, Webb may be the most talented U.S. middle distance runner to come along in years, but he's also the tactically dumbest. Put him in a race against Steve Scott, Jim Spivey and Sydney Maree at their prime and 99 times out of 100 he gets 4th. Maybe he should try to take some lessons from Spivey, one of the best tacticians ever, instead trying to bull his way to a win. "Time to rock and roll" indeed - he looked like someone filled his shorts with rocks the last 150m of the final.
Haven't seen the marathon yet, did Sell try and win or just run intelligently for place?
off guard wrote:
anyone who thought sell's race was a surprise has had their head in the sand the last 18 months
Wrong. Sell ran a few seconds off a PR and beat a lot of athletes that are much faster than he is. Anyone who picked Sell for a top 10 finish was a nut.
Some of the PRs of the guys Sell beat:
2:06:33
2:06:47
2:07:29
2:07:42
2:07:49
2:07:50
2:08:02
2:08:13
2:08:31
2:08:51
2:08:56
2:09:07
2:09:07
2:09:08
2:09:13
2:09:24
2:09:46
2:09:58
There are more under 2:10, but I got tired of typing it all out. Sell beat a couple of Olympic medalists as well. I doubt anyone expected that.
Sell ran an intelligent race.
Webb ran like a schoolboy.
Nuff said
no way. Webb actually went for the win to try and put himself in contention. he had balls. sell never tried to put himself in medal contention and ran for time really, if he picked off guys so much the better. i respect webb more because he put it on the line and went for it. sell did the safe thing. he will get a decent place every time with that strategy but very well will it work out for you at the pace he set out. no guts no glory.
But did Sell try and win? Looking at the 30k split he was 2 minutes back adding another minute by the finish. Webb, while fading at the end at least tried to win. I see this as putting it all on the line, knowing that if you fail you have to live with your decision. However, he could have hung back and kicked and maybe even finished 8th. Would that have been as good? Not to me. Congrats to Sell, but kudos to Webb.
By that line of reasoning Confederate general George Pickett deserves a place among the greatest military leaders of all time for having the "guts" to lead his men into a hail of Union musket fire. "At least he went for it," would be a fitting epitath for his tombstone, eh?
I mean: very _rarely_ well it work out that he gets a medal with that kind of pace he set out at. No guts no glory.
JimG wrote:
By that line of reasoning Confederate general George Pickett deserves a place among the greatest military leaders of all time for having the "guts" to lead his men into a hail of Union musket fire. "At least he went for it," would be a fitting epitath for his tombstone, eh?
George Pickett was a division commander, not a general.
The Lions try to win the Superbowl every year, too.
So if Brian laid down a 4:15 Mile right from the start and then clutched his Hamstring, would all of you idiots be saying, "Damn he was way ahead of world record pace when the injury bug got him."
Sell was much more impressive because he employed a TACTIC to allow himself to be successful. All of you Webb supporters need to quite watching Pre movies.
sorry, make that quit.
Here's another analogy for you guys. As a 6'3" 265 lb man, I could have toed the line in Helsinki (with a sponsor's exemption) and been ahead at the 60 meter mark, does that mean I'm a hero because I was going for the win?
Alan did a great job rabbiting a WC Final... He should have just took the first 800 out a little quicker if he wanted his full rabbiting fee.
no that would be stupid. but he didn't even try to stay with or shadow the lead pack, that's what i mean. if success is defined as being an also-ran, then i dont want to be successful. no guys, no glory. webb put it on the line and ran out of gas, at least he went for it. sell never bothered to try and stay with the lead guys or even close, he basically gave them the medal
Webb didn't try to stay with or shadow the lead pack either. He tried to run away from them with over HALF the race to go. And what makes this tactic all the more stupid is it was off of a 2:03 half. I'm sure that nobody would able to respond because all of the world class 1500M guys would surely be exhausted off of a blazing half like that.
Look, I'm not saying you can't be pruod of Alan- hell you can even worship him if you like. Personally, I'm just tired of everyone swelling up with pride over what quite possibly is the dumbest race tactic in the history of racing.
SORRY, SELL. And did Webb really think by making that move he would win?
Comparing these two performances does a disservice to both athletes. Sell ran a well-planned race which allowed him to place surprisingly high--an excellent result for an athlete that has not yet reached the heights that Webb already has. Webb ran a tactically poor race but demonstrated a competitive desire that will be as important and tactics in his future success.
his statgy was fine. ElG has employed the SAME strategy twice in his championship wins and Morceli has done it once as well. His execution was a little suspect but you know, if he stayed with everyone for another 300m he would definitely not have gotten a medal and would have just been outkicked. and then you;d be criticizing him for not going sooner. no win situation for him in your eyes. i won't say he had a great race but i will say his showing was better than sell's - he laid it out there to get a medal, sell did not. And Webb employed a reasonable strategy, it wasn't stupid, unlike Sell's 2004 Oly Trials strategy. I dont' see how you can honestly put the two in the same boat.