Jorge Torres

He was the best during cross country.

He did not compete in the indoor championships.

He has yet to win an outdoor individual title.

Not much evidence to crown him as best unless you put a qualifier on it, eh?

Not the 10k because Cragg is running that I think. If Cragg doubles up then not the 5k either!! Facts, you really want to bum Jorge don't you. Do you have his picture under your pillow?

Well, I've already explained the Cragg/Jorge relationship enough times, so I don't need to do it again.

Jorge will beat Cragg in any race 3K and over, including 3K.

No way will Cragg double. If he does, he won't win both races, and he might win neither.

Best runner...? If I'm not mistaken, Cragg has two NCAA individual titles, Jorge has one. Not sure I'm buying what you're selling. Both are great, but to call one better than the other...I'm not sure.

Actually, the individual NCAA title count is Cragg over Jorge 3-1.

SSSSSSSSMMMMMMMMMMMAAAAAAAAAAAACCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKK

Both are great, although indoors is not as important as cross or outdoors. Most people don't do any peaking at indoors, but I'd be surprised if Cragg wasn't.

Cragg is king of the indoors, because its run on his track and he loves it. Untill he wins a title away from there, he is just an indoor runner

And, we go with the latest head to head competition to determine the victor. Jorge wins.

And if you go with the latest opportunity to compete, where was J. Torrez during the NCAA indoors?

You run when the meets are held. You learn to run on the good courses and the bad, the indoor courses, and the outdoors. You don't avoid competition by saying, "Oh, that's not my kind of course."

The rationalization that indoors isn't important and people don't peak for indoors and so forth and so on sounds like so much drivel the weekend following the championships.

Facts,

Do you realize that Alistair could hardly run this summer because of a knee problem? You boyfriend Jorge was putting in an entire summer of base while Alistair did not know if he would be able to run XC. Alistair lost to Jorge by only a second off of probably 2 months of training.

No offense to Jorge, I have met him and think he is a class act on and off the track. Alistair is in a league of his own right now. And I know he wasn't doing any peaking for indoor except the last week before nationals.

I thought Ritz was going to win everything? That must have been before he opted to transfer to Yale and join the crew team.

In the order asked:

I do not know.

Yesterday afternoon at 3:26 MST.

Facts won't let him.

I would say that indoor is a side-show and third-fiddle to cross and outdoors ANY week of the year. It's no rationalization, that pecking order is fact.

Orson Buggy wrote:

And if you go with the latest opportunity to compete, where was J. Torrez during the NCAA indoors?

You run when the meets are held. You learn to run on the good courses and the bad, the indoor courses, and the outdoors. You don't avoid competition by saying, "Oh, that's not my kind of course."

First, his last name is TORRES, and regarding your other point, tell that to Geb, KK, Radcliffe, etc.

I do apologize for the misspelled last name.

Geb being the person who just won at the IAAF Indoors? What now, he just went there because of the easy victory that awaited him?

Calling the indoor T&F season a sideshow just insults a lot of fine people who just went through a season of competition, in your eyes, just to be clowns.

What is this intense dislike, even viciousness, being shown the week following the NCAA Indoors? There were a lot of excellent athletes there performing at a high level. Most of them will also perform at a high level when the outdoor season comes around--that will not make them any more, or less, of a track athlete.

Observer,

Yeah Cragg is in a league of his own. Jorge's bitch.

Essentially, yes.

It only insults those who think that indoors is more important to the rest of the world than either outdoors or even cross. The clowns are in the racewalk, but I'm not going to go there.

I'm not sure where you are seeing any intense dislike or even viciousness, if it was in any post of mine then the words are passing through an extreme exaggeration lens before they hit your retina. I never said or even implied that they were not good performances, they were very good.... for indoors. Cragg's double was definitely tough and impressive, as was Gorton's. Yet, I would be more impressed if Cragg was in the top 10 at World Cross and if Gorton were to win an outdoor NCAA title or NCAA Cross next fall. Call me crazy. How they will perform outdoors, the real track season, is not certain yet (see: Regina 2002, Tim Broe 2002) but it will be the true test. Performing exceptionally indoors but flopping when it counts outdoors certainly could make them less of a track athlete. If Regina were setting world records and winning World Champs and Olympic gold in late summer rather than winning indoor races and setting early season indoor records when a lot less of the media's and public's attention is turned and with significantly diminished competition, her stature would be quite a bit higher than it currently is. Maybe you think that isn't fair, but that's simply how it is in this sport. The more competition and the better the competition, the more highly esteemed the performance.

Do you spend all day on here facts?? Are you gazing at pictures of Jorge on the net all day whilst coming on forums speaking shit about other runnners. Your obviously not an athlete yourself because you've been on this forum all day!!! Where was Jorge indoors?? Distance runners should have to run 3 seasons for their schools and not just concentrate on the ones they see most important. Thats why its gonna be all the more funny to see Cragg bitchslap Jorge at outdoors!

Stornim wrote....

"Distance runners should have to run 3 seasons for their schools and not just concentrate on the ones they see most important."

That's not a very intelligent thing to say in my opinion. Why just distance runners? Why not basketball players? They are 3 different running sports after all...many people make it sound like Torres decided on a whim to skip indoor because he didn't like it. I'm sure a bit more thought went into the decision than that....