Marathon pace and threshold HR

Threshold is individual, can not be prescribed from max HR. The suggested numbers are population average. An individual can have lower or higher threshold HR depending on conditioning.

Secondly, if you're leg are tired and sore, but you're breathing is fine (no blow-up), then your mechanics (muscle/tendon/joint) is not ready for your cardio. You need more mileage at easier pace to slowly strengthen them (regardless of your cardio/vo2max). I know strong HM runner that cruise easily at his predicted pace at his first marathon, on schedule without struggling until 20 miles, and then 'kaboom!' with cramp and dead leg. And still breathing easy and relaxed, not hitting the wall.

You made a good point. Indeed, breathing was easy at this pace. Should I continue with such kind of workout but say for 30' @ sub-threshold pace after a 10' warm-up or should I replace them with medium run of 1h at lower HR or maybe a mix of them ? Or course, a long run is always included in my weekly schedule.

Livingstone prescribes sub-threshold runs at the beginning of the base phase, while Daniels does not.

In addition to long easy runs, you also need strengthening (hill, trails, and also strides/intervals). These will make sure sore faster (at lower volume) and you need more rest (plenty of time with everything locked down). Do them carefully (watchout you hamstring and PF), add speed/reps only if waking up the day after without soreness.

I think many plans prescribe strengthening early (following base) with high intensity but short volume (few reps). Only then you move to threshold (slower but longer) and finally target marathon pace. All of them sprinkled on the backbone of long easy runs. Different systems have slightly different details, but the principle is the same. Best try to adapt for your individual problems.

My maximum HR is 204, but my LT is 184 with training. My VO2 max and speed on the other hand..... Some have high LT and others have other parameters that's better

I have included strides on my easy days (3x/week). Ok to include some hill sprints in my schedule maybe once a week. That's a good idea also to improve running economy.

In fact, I am not a marathon runner. Actually, I believe marathon pace will correspond to my long run pace, which is slower than the so-called sub-threshold pace. I intended to use that sub-threshold pace as a strong aerobic stimulus to diversify training a bit in the base phase as in the Lydiard/Livingstone system. I also read that some elites were training in this zone during their base phase.

Therefore, I could do something like that for my base phase week 1:

. Day 1: 30' easy + strides

. Day 2: 10' warm-up + 30' @ sub-threshold pace

. Day 3: 30' easy + strides

. Day 4: 1h easy + hill sprints

. Day 5: 30' easy + strides

. Day 6: rest

. Day 7: long run easy or run in the 154-165 BPM range, which should be marathon pace

Nopseudofound wrote:

I also read that some elites were training in this zone during their base phase.

I mean training a lot in this zone.

Sounds good. (Like any plan ;-)

The devil is in how you decide the exact dosage in response to how you feel/recover. Nothing more to discuss there. Just do it.

Coronation Street wrote:

Sounds good. (Like any plan ;-)

The devil is in how you decide the exact dosage in response to how you feel/recover. Nothing more to discuss there. Just do it.

Thank you for your help.

Nopseudofound wrote:

Therefore, I could do something like that for my base phase week 1:

. Day 1: 30' easy + strides

. Day 2: 10' warm-up + 30' @ sub-threshold pace

. Day 3: 30' easy + strides

. Day 4: 1h easy + hill sprints

. Day 5: 30' easy + strides

. Day 6: rest

. Day 7: long run easy or run in the 154-165 BPM range, which should be marathon pace

Should I include some strength training routine on the easy days, 3x/week ?