Spanish Middle Distance Training

I was just thinking the same thing watching the Steeple. What is it that makes the Spanish good? Lifestyle? Training? Youth system? They certainly don't have a very populous country, yet they always have multiple athletes in the finals of the middle distance races, and even good marathoners. Occasionally they even get a guy like Cacho who can really roll.

Well represented in pro cycling, too, where they're especially noted for climbing abilty. To my mind this points to a genetic advantage. Still, I too am interested to hear about their training.

DCR wrote:

Well represented in pro cycling, too, where they're especially noted for climbing abilty. To my mind this points to a genetic advantage. Still, I too am interested to hear about their training.

You seem to be on the right track. The people of spain share much of the same gene pool as the people of Morocco. The original native populations (pre-Arab Conquest) were very similar and after conquest were left with similar genetics. Lifestyle probably has much to do with the success as well as spanish culture is most different from the rest of europe.

A national doping program. Look at the number of athletes caught doping from Spain. Amazing what drugs can do.

here's an older thread on the subject:

Not to be a drug-bitch, but I used to follow the Spanish runners when they appeared to be the only Western team competing with the Africans (4-5 years ago. The Japanese also did/does well at 10km and up).

The team was cleaned out with several positive drug tests a few years back, notably Euro champ Alberto Garcia who was a bad-ass, and now appears to have a very competitive squad again. It was disappointing at the time.

I wish their runners luck, but this situation does seem to mirror their previous situation very closely.

...With a quick google check for more info., it seems as though Garcia is back and running in the 5000m heats in Helsinki! I guess that's some serious irony, or serendipity for you.

It is my understanding that their training is very similar to what the Portuguise are doing.

Long reps at 98-103% race pace once every 7-10 days

Short reps at 105-110% race pace once every 7-10 days

Progressive run: 45-60:00 once every 7-10 days

All other runs are "relatively easy."

The Spaniards have very good history of competing well in distance events and more recently in middle distance events. In cycling, they kick butt in the mountains. Miguel Indurain was world record holder in 1 hour cycling and 5-timne Tour de France winner. There were some good Spanish runners in the 1960s that were coached by a Norwegian coach that was well-known in Scandanavia as being a sharp guy.

My understanding is they have very basic approach. The do moderately high mileage for most runners (the marathoners due go fairly high...up to 260km per week). They include one long rep session per week at about 5k to 10k pace, one short rep session at about 3k to 1500m pace, generally. I did read that Anton, the marathoner who was a former mid 3:30s 150m runner, ran many long runs in the neighborhood of 50km (about 31 miles) and some 25km time trials.

A Spanish coached emailed to me last winter and said that his club runners (who were fairly quick) included regular hard 15km runs in their plans. He also said they tend to go quite slowly on their easy days. I know this is generic, non-specific, but hopefully it helps in some way.

Check previous letsrun threads.

Just about the best technical stuff I've read on endurance are transcripts of the annual RFEA Coaching Seminars; extremely through case histories of their leading enduros, with candid Q+As to follow. In Spanish, but well worth seeking out. Yes there's been some doping but a minority and the Federation is fiercely opposed to it in both policy and practice. As a Brit, I always say if we had in place for 15 years the Spanish support system and culture, we'd expect nothing less than the results they achieve, esp among their guys. A big issue, esp in the longer events, is that their support system is sustained post age 23, when in UK, under current elite progs, the transition from cosseted Uni life to the real world seems such a make or break phase.

Their federation finds talent and raises them on a daily basis (without putting too much pressure). They don't let any stone unturned in terms of training and such. This is why they are so good. I think the US in general has a bigger talent pool to work with but USATF doesn't have the same discipline in checking up on their prominent athletes. Also, every runner is their own runner with agents, etc... I think in Spain it is run more by a single federation like our USATF.

The national federations are responsible for the eventual success of their athletes. Look at Ethiopia and North Africa. USATF, take notes.

-Soup

Where can I get a hold of the transcripts of the RFEA seminars you mention? - the Spanish isn't a problem.

ironic you mention miguel indirain tinman as he tested positive for probenicide (the masking agent of choice in the 80s and early 90s fro all u young pups) during the tour one year. his doctor said it was used to keep antibiotics in his blood longer as he was suffering from syphllis. now call me crazy, but if you have a bad case of sores all over your unit, it don't think you'd be too effective in the saddle (pun intended) for 4 sweaty hours a day for a month.

[quote]Tinman wrote:

The Spaniards have very good history of competing well in distance events and more recently in middle distance events. In cycling, they kick butt in the mountains. Miguel Indurain was world record holder in 1 hour cycling and 5-timne Tour de France winner.

Entrenador, I emailed you but got 'system undeliverable'. You can get in toch with me, en ingles o espanol, at the email address I have used here.

Re agents, I was told by a leading coach out there that1,000 Spanish athletes have an agent which from a UK perspective is huge - perhaps 100 here, and across all events, men and women, we probably have stronger depth (he said guardedly on Day 5 of helsinki world champs!)The level of performance at which endurance runners are able to just about make a living from the sport, and the numbers of runners who choose to do so,by some mixture of club support(cash and kind I believe), sponsorship, prize money and, at the top level, RFEA support along the lines of UKA Lottery Programmes, is v different fom UK scenario,and probably any other European nation at present.

btw Indurains doc was also the doc of Abel Anton and Martin Fiz.

Alberto Garcia:24y 13:50 27y 13:04

Fabian Roncero:27y 28:21 28y 27:14(!!!)

Jose Rios:25y 13:41+28:30 26y 13:07+27:22(hahaha)

J.C.de la Ossa:26y 13:47+29:06 29y 13:10+27:27

what an improvement for guys in the mid-twens who have already 5-10years of serious training behind them.

sososo - you've been a tad selective in those PBs in A - prob overlooking some high level XC results that perhaps better reflect what upward performance trajectory these guys were on (v much so in de la Ossa's case); 2 - in several cases the relatively modest 10k times came at stages where the guys were more focussed on 3k/5k, at which distances their PBs better reflected their 10k potential.

Just as anecdotes that prove nothing either way, many of the big hitters changed in their mid-20s from being in full time employment (in some cases very long hours), often in light industrial work, with very little cutting edge support service, to full time runners. They often identify being able to sleep up to 12 hours per 24, instead of their previous 6 or 7, as a key factor in addition to the step up in quality and quantity of training. In a RFEA seminar Q+A with Alberto Garcia's coach in c 2000/01, a couple of folk query precisely what changed in the big leap forward and, with hindsight to him getting caught for EPO, there was clearly an undercurrent in the question and the not-so-robust reply. With the World 5k heats set for tomorrow, Garcia has detailed in recent interviews that his key track sessions this season suggest he is in best ever shape.

Elsewhere on the Letsrun boards the mighty Jon Brown suggests that the large majority (but most definitely not all) of elite SPanish runners do what they do clean, and I've heard similar at first hand from another GB top flight runner who spent over a year training day in day out with their big guns. It's depressing,most acutely so for those of the Spanish elite who are clean but well aware of the rumours tarring them all with the same brush, that Garcia, nor indeed the other lower profile runners who have been done for EPO aren't the only bad apples.

Lifestyle change...wasn't that the same thing Cathal Lombard said when asked about his sudden improvement?

Even their own guys like top-800m runner Manuel Reina say that a large number of spanish distance runners take drugs and the federations "allows" this inoffically.

Is every spanish elite runner on drugs..of course not but considering how many have already been caught the ethic standard seems to be as high as among american sprinters.

sososo wrote:

Lifestyle change...wasn't that the same thing Cathal Lombard said when asked about his sudden improvement?

Even their own guys like top-800m runner Manuel Reina say that a large number of spanish distance runners take drugs and the federations "allows" this inoffically.

Is every spanish elite runner on drugs..of course not but considering how many have already been caught the ethic standard seems to be as high as among american sprinters.

No sure what your point is about Lombard's explanation. The first line of defence for both the innocent and the guilty is "I didn't do it". Doesn't prove anything.

The analogy with us sprinters is a good one. Clearly they are the best, and some are taking drugs. Seems that the clean ones are doing something right though.

DavidC

In my old "J'Accuse" post from a couple of years back, I quote Jon Brown as having said that it was more of a question of "who is NOT on EPO" in Spanish athletics.

What's more "despressing" is the fact that elite level athletes aren't more willing to get involved in whistle-blowing. Athletes generally move in tight circles: everyone knows everyone, everyone talks and there are few secrets.

These guys (and gals) know what's going on .. and they either participate in it or turn a blind eye. Both are objectionable attitudes, in my view.

Ths Spanish athletics system - and quite possible much of Southern Europe and Northern Africa - is awash with drugs.

Martin

We all suspect that drug developments in cycling filters down into running with regards to endurance athletes.

Spain is a top cycling nation with the first world infrastructure to develop and sell these drugs. It has produced a high level of positive tests in recent times which proves that drug use is at least present, maybe not endemic- but it definetly raises more questions than there are answers.

I think the key to solving the drug issue is to have more open spread of athletes training together Eg when a UK athlete trains in Kenya and sees the day to day training he quickly makes an assessment of who is using and who is not using drugs and if drugs are present and discussed. people will talk more and information will flow more easily than it does at present. It becomes self police-ing. Also when a training group culture becomes anti drugs it creates a sustainable moral obligation towards others in teh group. You will still get cheats just not as many as if the whole group thought drug taking was fine.

When athletes train alone or in specific country training camps it defintely raises suspicion on what they have to hide?? This is something which is happening to Eithiopia at the moment - are they just training hard or is their a large scale drug program on the go? This was highlighted by recent death of Bekele's fiance.

Anyway the problem is now huge and I think every top athlete doubts every other top athlete and its become and easy accusation to make..

Any ideas on how to solve this???