The secret to developing high school 800-1500 meter runners

indoor season gives kids more opportunity to learn how to race. it's very valuable at those distances. Train through it though.

high school xc coach wrote:

indoor season gives kids more opportunity to learn how to race. it's very valuable at those distances. Train through it though.

What about Brazier? He is at or near peak fitness. Do you think it's smart to attempt to maintain peak from February through Olympics? It's a high risk strategy. Indoor season for pros is not about learning how to race. Indoor T&F for pros is about making money. You cannot spin it that indoor racing at a high level in February means anything in an Olympic year.

A few things:

1. Progressive running over a hilly circuit

2. Short hill repeats 60-100m

3. Long hill repeats for LT 300m

4. Moderate volume 60-80k 40-50miles

5. 1 track session per week for 6 months

6. Long intervals and thresholds on dirt or grass

7. Long run 60-75 minutes

16071007449207 wrote:

It is not to have them compete at indoor meets.

During that time off, have them train.

Run a variety of speeds.

I am thinking in terms of the 800 and 1500 meter events.

(Please do not answer with one-word answers such as Lydiard, Daniels, or something else. All of these mean different things to everyone.)

The only problem with your statement is that it's demonstrably false.

With only 1 exception, all of the fastest times for the 800 for the 2019 outdoor season, were run by high schoolers who ran an indoor season. Both boys and girls. The only exception is boys #8 Crayton Carrozza who did not run indoor for 2019, however, he is running indoor for 2020. Your theory appears to be wrong.

GIRLS 2019 Outdoors 800 Best

1 2:01.17

ATHING MU

2 2:04.38

MICHAELA ROSE

3 2:04.86

ROISIN WILLIS

4 2:05.15

VICTORIA VANRIELE

5 2:05.25

JULIETTE WHITTAKER

6 2:05.83

TAYLOR JAMES

7 2:06.01

DOMINIQUE MUSTIN

8 2:06.13

MORGAN FOSTER

9 2:06.27

MAKAYLA PAIGE

10 2:06.31

MARLENA PREIGH

Boys 2019 Outdoor 800 Best

1 1:49.46

DARIUS KIPYEGO

2 1:49.69

DANIEL MATON

3 1:49.83

AJ GREEN

4 1:50.24

THEO WOODS

5 1:50.39

TYLER SHUE

6 1:50.43

CONOR MURPHY

7 1:50.53

SEAN DOLAN

8 1:50.64

COLE HOCKER

8 1:50.64

CRAYTON CARROZZANo indoor for 2019 but indoor for 2020

10 1:50.83

KYLE GOODMAN

Thank you for your work on this, however, all that shows is they are fast. It does not take into consideration the injuries they sustained over their careers. In America we USE talent. We do not DEVELOP it. Do you know that according to Milesplit, we have over 3000 high school boys run under 2:00 for the 800 every year? (Many coaches do not report times, so this number is probably low.) Yet, how many sub-4 milers do we produce? Wouldn't you think some of those guys would max out under 4:00?

The problem is our coaching and the fact kids race and train all year long!

coahc wrote:

A few things:

1. Progressive running over a hilly circuit

2. Short hill repeats 60-100m

3. Long hill repeats for LT 300m

4. Moderate volume 60-80k 40-50miles

5. 1 track session per week for 6 months

6. Long intervals and thresholds on dirt or grass

7. Long run 60-75 minutes

I like your training program. Certainly, it's appropriate for the high school level.

Most coaches still overdo #6.

We have the greatest track & field system in the world.

If I am wrong, I would like to be convinced because I write otherwise.

I am one of the few that think it's wrong for kids to be competing

for "national championships."

If they win a "national," as a teenager, what do they do for an encore?

We do ok with 1:52/3:51 and 1:53/3:58 one of our females 2:11/4:32 but there isn't any indoor races down under.

i don't like national championships because it stretches the season out too long. too much tapering/peaking instead of working on base, which is what winter should be for. I am dealing with this currently, and I don't like it at all.

I am in the Northeast though, so overall, indoor season is a blessing. It is a chance, once per week, to get on a track to run fast, rather than running on slush covered roads, treadmills, or school hallways. Even more important than that, those meets are the carrot that gets kids to train in the slush, on treadmills, and in halls.

what about Brazier? wrote:

high school xc coach wrote:

indoor season gives kids more opportunity to learn how to race. it's very valuable at those distances. Train through it though.

What about Brazier? He is at or near peak fitness. Do you think it's smart to attempt to maintain peak from February through Olympics? It's a high risk strategy. Indoor season for pros is not about learning how to race. Indoor T&F for pros is about making money. You cannot spin it that indoor racing at a high level in February means anything in an Olympic year.

Our best 800 athletes all race indoor 800s and do an indoor season. Hmm, maybe they know something you don't?

Distance-minded people try to compare the training of a distance runner to a middle distance runner and think that you don't need to be fit this time of year. Guess what? If you aren't at least reasonably fit this time of year you are not going would be a world beater in August. There is a significant amount of speed that needs to be trained year-round and while you don't have to be racing you need to at least be doing workouts to begin to sharpen it.

Does the racing mean anything in February? Probably not, but the fitness does.

Run an indoor race once or twice a month. Keep the expectations low and use it as a opportunities to break up training.

Run a mid week tempo. There’s lots of variations, so mix it up to keep it interesting.

Run about an hour a day at a conversational pace on all non tempo days.

Lift weights two days a week focusing on core.

Strides most days with full recovery (Ex: 50m @ 400-800 pace or 100m @ 1500m pace)

You foolishly made my points but you obviously do not know that you did so.

The best 800m runners in the world going back to 1970s do not have a history of racing significantly in indoor season during Olympic year.

Physiologist have proven the best predictor of 800m success is 400m personal best. U.S. has had the best 400m/440yd athletes in the world going back to 1800s and Lon Myer. U.S. has underachieved in 800m post 1936 to 1956, peak U.S. 800m era. U.S. 800m runners have underachieved for decades. Considering the number of 46.xx & 47.xx 400m athletes in U.S., U.S. clearly is not developing, training and racing 800m athletes properly.

You believe it is smart for Brazier to attempt to maintain near peak fitness from February through September of an Olympic year. It is a high risk strategy. We have very few examples of that strategy working out well. Eamonn Coghlan raced sub-3:50 one mile indoors, winter, 1983. Coghlan won 1983 5000m W.C. Maybe a couple of other examples but it does not work out too often.

Where did I say maintain your peak fitness? I did not say that. I don't think I proved your point because I don't think you know how to read.

1) You obviously believe racing indoors is a smart idea or you would continue post disagreeing with me.

2) Brazier is obviously near peak condition.

3) I destroyed the merits of your argument when you stated other U.S. runners race indoors. All you have left is to stated I cannot read. I will not read this thread anymore. You will be debating with yourself.

do not confuse what pro's need with the needs of high school kids.

brazier probably runs workouts that are more demanding than the meets most high school kids participate in.