Infinite Jest is the most overrated novel I have ever read

sub sub elite local hobby jogger wrote:

So many people time and time again have said Infinite Jest is an absolutely must read, including this message board. You have to read it at least once in your life! You have to read the footnotes! You have to have a dictionary at hand! Maybe even one of those books dedicated to the novel as well!

No, just no.

I slogged through the book waiting for everything to tie together. For all the different story lines to intersect and maybe some of them reach a resolution. For the end of the book to tie in with the beginning of the book. For the side plots and long footnotes to taper off as we got to the meat of the action. But nothing of that sort. Barely anything happened. And as the book was reaching its conclusion, still going off on tangential stories not really related to the various subplots at all.

Perhaps I am less than enthused because we do live a drug-addicted and entertainment-addicted society today, which we use to escape from various ills. Our government and society nearly as cartoonish today as depicted in the novel. Maybe those elements of the novel don't have the same force as they did back in the 1990s.

Yes, DFW is a genius and Infinite Jest is a literary behemoth and perhaps worthy of its own encyclopedia. It is an impressive piece of literature. But as for doing what a novel is supposed to do, which is tell a story and entertain the reader? No, just no. It was a slog. I don't want to read novels that are slogs all the way through. Maybe it will come together more for me if I read it again but I don't want to dedicate the time.

sub sub elite local hobby jogger wrote:

So many people time and time again have said Infinite Jest is an absolutely must read, including this message board. You have to read it at least once in your life! You have to read the footnotes! You have to have a dictionary at hand! Maybe even one of those books dedicated to the novel as well!

No, just no.

I slogged through the book waiting for everything to tie together. For all the different story lines to intersect and maybe some of them reach a resolution. For the end of the book to tie in with the beginning of the book. For the side plots and long footnotes to taper off as we got to the meat of the action. But nothing of that sort. Barely anything happened. And as the book was reaching its conclusion, still going off on tangential stories not really related to the various subplots at all.

Perhaps I am less than enthused because we do live a drug-addicted and entertainment-addicted society today, which we use to escape from various ills. Our government and society nearly as cartoonish today as depicted in the novel. Maybe those elements of the novel don't have the same force as they did back in the 1990s.

Yes, DFW is a genius and Infinite Jest is a literary behemoth and perhaps worthy of its own encyclopedia. It is an impressive piece of literature. But as for doing what a novel is supposed to do, which is tell a story and entertain the reader? No, just no. It was a slog. I don't want to read novels that are slogs all the way through. Maybe it will come together more for me if I read it again but I don't want to dedicate the time.

Giles Corey wrote:

sub sub elite local hobby jogger wrote:

So many people time and time again have said Infinite Jest is an absolutely must read, including this message board. You have to read it at least once in your life! You have to read the footnotes! You have to have a dictionary at hand! Maybe even one of those books dedicated to the novel as well!

No, just no.

I slogged through the book waiting for everything to tie together. For all the different story lines to intersect and maybe some of them reach a resolution. For the end of the book to tie in with the beginning of the book. For the side plots and long footnotes to taper off as we got to the meat of the action. But nothing of that sort. Barely anything happened. And as the book was reaching its conclusion, still going off on tangential stories not really related to the various subplots at all.

Perhaps I am less than enthused because we do live a drug-addicted and entertainment-addicted society today, which we use to escape from various ills. Our government and society nearly as cartoonish today as depicted in the novel. Maybe those elements of the novel don't have the same force as they did back in the 1990s.

Yes, DFW is a genius and Infinite Jest is a literary behemoth and perhaps worthy of its own encyclopedia. It is an impressive piece of literature. But as for doing what a novel is supposed to do, which is tell a story and entertain the reader? No, just no. It was a slog. I don't want to read novels that are slogs all the way through. Maybe it will come together more for me if I read it again but I don't want to dedicate the time.

Hell, try reading Philip Roth or Saul Bellows.

Then you will known what real crap is

wait wrote:

so...the novel being prescient...didn’t do it for you? If the only thing you need is Entertainment, there’s enough schlock out there to keep you occupied for life.

Infinite Jest is tough. I also think Infinite Jest is ~slightly~ overrated.

The subplots ARE THE PLOT. Come on man, you think a novel has to have the most straightforward possible narrative structure to be good? Can you understand that form and plot are both elements that can give meaning to a novel? The footnotes are meant to pull you out at particular points. Sometimes the information in them doesn’t even matter. They’re interruptions, and they interrupt for a reason. The form is the text.

I would strongly recommend you stick to YA novels. Many people enjoy them. The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you.

/mu/tant runner wrote:

sub sub elite local hobby jogger wrote:

So many people time and time again have said Infinite Jest is an absolutely must read, including this message board. You have to read it at least once in your life! You have to read the footnotes! You have to have a dictionary at hand! Maybe even one of those books dedicated to the novel as well!

No, just no.

I slogged through the book waiting for everything to tie together. For all the different story lines to intersect and maybe some of them reach a resolution. For the end of the book to tie in with the beginning of the book. For the side plots and long footnotes to taper off as we got to the meat of the action. But nothing of that sort. Barely anything happened. And as the book was reaching its conclusion, still going off on tangential stories not really related to the various subplots at all.

Perhaps I am less than enthused because we do live a drug-addicted and entertainment-addicted society today, which we use to escape from various ills. Our government and society nearly as cartoonish today as depicted in the novel. Maybe those elements of the novel don't have the same force as they did back in the 1990s.

Yes, DFW is a genius and Infinite Jest is a literary behemoth and perhaps worthy of its own encyclopedia. It is an impressive piece of literature. But as for doing what a novel is supposed to do, which is tell a story and entertain the reader? No, just no. It was a slog. I don't want to read novels that are slogs all the way through. Maybe it will come together more for me if I read it again but I don't want to dedicate the time.

Infinite Jest was my favorite novel for a while, and it still is the most memorable novel I've read, probably owing to it being the first big, scattered, and notorious novel that I'd read. I can still see the memory of reading the first two chapters, and staying up into the morning to finish it a while later.

You're point about living in an "entertainment-addicted society" hits on the best parts of the novel. Of course, many had said, and continued saying, things of this form with greater depth and nuance, but I don't think anyone made such a piece of entertainment out of it. Infinite Jest isn't the most profound thing, but it definitely hits some important points...and Wallace just brought it into a slightly different medium, and had a distinct writing style to back it up.

>slogged through the book, waited for resolution, etc.

I mean this was a great strength of the book. Nothing is resolved at the front, but some things are resolved in the background. But actually great job slogging through a book you weren't crazy about. It probably could have been cut a bit, and there were some slogg-ish parts but the whole was not a slog imo

>which is tell a story and entertain the reader...

As above, there is irony in this statement. I mean anything worth doing, reading, listening too shouldn't just entertain or be fun. It should enlighten, lift up, or otherwise enrich whoever is reading/doing/etc.

I think it can be summarized that when you first start seriously reading, you see IJ as the greatest book ever, when you've read a few great books you hate IJ as a pale attempt at masterpiece, once you've read a lot you realize that IJ is solid book, but not without flaws. (and maybe this goes with your point that it is overrated.). But also, you have your own opinion and aren't a lit drone, so that is good.

sub sub elite local hobby jogger wrote:

wait wrote:

so...the novel being prescient...didn’t do it for you? If the only thing you need is Entertainment, there’s enough schlock out there to keep you occupied for life.

Infinite Jest is tough. I also think Infinite Jest is ~slightly~ overrated.

The subplots ARE THE PLOT. Come on man, you think a novel has to have the most straightforward possible narrative structure to be good? Can you understand that form and plot are both elements that can give meaning to a novel? The footnotes are meant to pull you out at particular points. Sometimes the information in them doesn’t even matter. They’re interruptions, and they interrupt for a reason. The form is the text.

I would strongly recommend you stick to YA novels. Many people enjoy them. The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you.

Good sir, I don't mind a novel that makes me think a bit. In fact, I prefer them over what you think is more down my alley. I can deal with abnormal form and structure and plot and subtle hints and foreshadowing. I mean, the entire underlying basis of creative writing is to, ya know, be creative. I understand the way a piece of literature is written can have as much influence as anything else.

But I have a simple rule with any novel I read and I think fiction authors asking for others' time should adhere to this simple rule: make this worth the the reader's time. I'm not sure it was.

I was highly entertained by the ridiculousness of some characters and the author's descriptive abilities and certain moments in the novel. I can't say I was bored.

My problem is that the reader is asked to do too much work. I could make most of the connections and recall some characters and plots from way back. I can take a hint. But important elements of the plots are buried in a sentence hundreds of pages back. Like the Suffolk ADA's hat fidgeting obsession that helps his identification is mentioned in a sentence hundreds of pages ago. But it's an important part of the reintroduction of this character. I have a good memory but it's photographic enough to recall an important sentence 600 pages ago.

It's just that a dedicated reader is putting in all this effort to make connections, refer to footnotes, look up words, remember this and that, and the hints that seem to foreshadow a burst of action and events don't really lead to anything but more lengthy and detailed descriptions that lead to more descriptions, even in the footnotes. It ends up doing what many novels of this length end up doing: be an exercise in mental masturbation for the author and its biggest fans.

C'Mon OP wrote:

First of all, I think the OP loved IJ and just wanted to start a thread about it with other DFW readers. Am I right, OP?

Before I comment on IJ, I just want to add a quick note on the guy who thinks Moby Dicks sucks. You clearly did not read Moby Dick. Moby Dick is unbelievable and in no way boring or drawn out. Even the parts describing various tools and weapons are written in a superb manner.

So back to IJ. First, you really do have to read the Notes and Errata. I made the mistake of starting it the first time and just skipping over some of them, got about 100 pages in and didn't know wtf was going on (you still don't know what is going on if you DO read them, but at least the characters are beginning to come together). So get yourself two bookmarks and commit. Some of the best writing is back there, to be honest.

The book is still one of my favorites of all time, and I do a lot of reading. I have read it twice now, and I have to say the second read was much better. Not that it connected more or I noticed anything new, but that I knew the characters and their comments and actions in the first 500 pages just made so much more sense. When you know Pemulis and John Wayne and Gately and Rémy Marathe and Poor Tony, their initial scenes are SO MUCH better. For instance, the scene between Rémy and agent Steeply in the desert is almost nonsensical the first time you read it, but there is so much good dialogue there after you know their missions. A lot of the book is that way.

I think his writing is up there with some of the world's best, but DFW was messy. He wrote in the 90s and the 90s was a grungy time. To take the music comparison a bit further and to compare it to a contemporary album, I look at this book like My Bloody Valentine's Loveless. It may sound like noise to the uninterested, but give it your attention and it is simply beautiful.

Anyway, I think you liked the book.

Racket wrote:

sub sub elite local hobby jogger wrote:

Good sir, I don't mind a novel that makes me think a bit. In fact, I prefer them over what you think is more down my alley. I can deal with abnormal form and structure and plot and subtle hints and foreshadowing. I mean, the entire underlying basis of creative writing is to, ya know, be creative. I understand the way a piece of literature is written can have as much influence as anything else.

But I have a simple rule with any novel I read and I think fiction authors asking for others' time should adhere to this simple rule: make this worth the the reader's time. I'm not sure it was.

I was highly entertained by the ridiculousness of some characters and the author's descriptive abilities and certain moments in the novel. I can't say I was bored.

My problem is that the reader is asked to do too much work. I could make most of the connections and recall some characters and plots from way back. I can take a hint. But important elements of the plots are buried in a sentence hundreds of pages back. Like the Suffolk ADA's hat fidgeting obsession that helps his identification is mentioned in a sentence hundreds of pages ago. But it's an important part of the reintroduction of this character. I have a good memory but it's photographic enough to recall an important sentence 600 pages ago.

It's just that a dedicated reader is putting in all this effort to make connections, refer to footnotes, look up words, remember this and that, and the hints that seem to foreshadow a burst of action and events don't really lead to anything but more lengthy and detailed descriptions that lead to more descriptions, even in the footnotes. It ends up doing what many novels of this length end up doing: be an exercise in mental masturbation for the author and its biggest fans.

This is actually kind of ironic because a major point of the book is that, you know, entertainment has become so empty and unsatisfying and has created this sort of endless feedback loop of more empty entertainment to fill the void left by empty entertainment. In a lot of ways it's meant to be a sort of "rebuttal" to Gravity's Rainbow

Yes, it's a complicated book and a lot of people end up reading it twice. The book was designed to make you work and think about a lot of different narratives. Is it too ambitious in this respect? Perhaps, but DFW did not claim himself or his ideas on New Sincerity to be an irrefutable genius.

If you're in the 25-30 age range then book resonates strongly, and I think especially in light of today's culture. As you grow older, the appeal of its message is probably a bit lost.