Why they don’t adjust London marathon to be a faster course?

I have noted this too, but I think as someone who watches the elites on tv, one thing we both forget about is this race is huge as a charity/fundraiser for more casual runners. Many of the parts of the course that slow it down slightly are also the parts that go by touristy sights. For instance, the hill out of the tunnel in the last few miles takes runners along the Thames, toward Big Ben. Other slower parts include going over the tower bridge and around the Cutty Sark, which are all major landmarks.

Isn't Dubai faster than Berlin? That course is pretty much flat as a pancake, and is an out and back with only one sharp turn.

I saw on the breaking2 documentary, Paris was listed as the fastest time. I always have a question why Berlin is the fastest for men, but not women? Do women just don’t want to run fast at Berlin? Why was the women’s marathon record broken at Chicago instead of Berlin, especially if Berlin is supposedly the fastest course?

Rotterdam is faster than London course

Average Race Time Bias- Marathons

Values shown for each marathon are calculated based on the elite runner's performances. For mixed races, the men's and women's RTB values are averaged. The values are given in seconds and represent how much faster (negative values) or slower (positive values) an elite runner would be expected to run at each race.

-90.5 +Paris (FRA)

-81.0 +Berlin (GER)

-79.2 +Debno (POL)

-76.4 +Marrakech (MAR)

-67.6 +Dubai (UAE)

-67.3 +Turin (ITA)

-66.8 +Italia (Carpi ITA)

-62.3 +Milano (ITA)

-60.3 +Seoul International (KOR)

-58.2 +Amsterdam (NED)

-55.1 +Beijing (CHN)

-53.4 +Hamburg (GER)

-52.0 +Lala (Torreon MEX)

-51.5 +Rotterdam (NED)

-49.1 +Osaka Women's (JPN)

-48.9 +Houston (TX/USA)

-47.3 +Frankfurt (GER)

-46.7 +London (ENG)

-46.0 +Köln (GER)

-44.4 +Rome (ITA)

-43.2 +Eindhoven (NED)

-26.5 +Vienna City (AUT)

-17.4 +Reggio Emilia (ITA)

-14.3 +Reims (FRA)

-13.8 +Chicago (IL/USA)

-11.0 +Venice (ITA)

-9.9 +Toronto Waterfront (ON/CAN)

-9.0 +Tokyo International (JPN)

-8.6 +Ottawa (ON/CAN)

-8.5 +Los Angeles (CA/USA)

-7.7 +Biwa-ko (Otsu JPN)

-2.3 +Nagoya Women's (JPN)

-1.3 +Yokohama Women's (JPN)

+2.9 +Fukuoka (JPN)

+8.0 +California Int'l (Sacramento CA/USA)

For the same reasons the marathon is now 26.2 miles instead of 25. What the royals want the royals get.

Interesting they give CIM a +8.0

I would say Berlin is fastest because the fastest men chose to run there and not the other way around. Having run both Berlin and Chicago I would say slight uphills every now and then in Berlin more than make up for Chicago's sharper turns. Which aren't like 180s anyway.

180s are straight line ahead. You mean 360s.

With Chicago way down on the list, how did Kosgei set a world record there?

that's not a turn wrote:

180s are straight line ahead. You mean 360s.

Lol no.

If the weather is good, anyone want to bet that Kipchoge won't get pushed to a WR by Bekele on the slow, ponderous, course that London offers ;-) ?

T-MAC100 wrote:

Interesting they give CIM a +8.0

Can we finally agree that CIM is not that fast of a course? Yes, it’s net downhill, but there are also some significant uphill portions too. It’s not as slow as Boston, but a totally flat course like Grandmas or Chicago is faster. I’m 100% convinced the main reason CIM has so many OT qualifiers is because so many people show up looking to run a qualifier you have a massive pack to run in. Anyone who’s actually run it will tell you this.

Dingler wrote:

T-MAC100 wrote:

Interesting they give CIM a +8.0

Can we finally agree that CIM is not that fast of a course? Yes, it’s net downhill, but there are also some significant uphill portions too. It’s not as slow as Boston, but a totally flat course like Grandmas or Chicago is faster. I’m 100% convinced the main reason CIM has so many OT qualifiers is because so many people show up looking to run a qualifier you have a massive pack to run in. Anyone who’s actually run it will tell you this.

I suspect that CIM has gotten faster relative to other courses with the advent of the Vaporfly.

I really think Erie should be on the list. Double loop. One 3 metre high bridge. Most of the course shielded from weather. Almost always good to great temperatures.

that's not a turn wrote:

180s are straight line ahead. You mean 360s.

May I suggest reviewing the unit circle. 180 is opposite side, 360 is same.

that's not a turn wrote:

180s are straight line ahead. You mean 360s.

Do a 90r. Then do another 90r. Which way are you facing?

Erie Fan wrote:

I really think Erie should be on the list. Double loop. One 3 metre high bridge. Most of the course shielded from weather. Almost always good to great temperatures.

Agree. Erie has to be one of the fastest courses in the world. Pancake flat and all smooth turns except for that short out and back section you run twice. Weather CAN be a little iffy that time of year but coming off a summer of training it's usually fine.

I ran it this past year and temps were right around 60 at the start rising to mid 60s during the race but I didn't feel it at all. Having aid stations every mile is awesome. First rate event. A true runners race which is very hard to come by these days.

Please keep in mind that the list of marathon courses linked above

1) was last updated in 2013; and

2) only includes a subset of marathons with elite fields.

So it also doesn't include every fast course, and doesn't reflect the most recent state of the sport.