CONTROVERSY at USATF Club Nationals - Tinman cheats

Did you file a protest within the protest window? Did anyone else?

Are you that one dude on Nomad DP that Tinman Elite said "no thanks" to?

well if they do revoke it over this then they should change the trophy to "1st place team in the over-regulated dress category"

this has nothing to do with sport and everything to do with being whining A-hole

fair's fare wrote:

well if they do revoke it over this then they should change the trophy to "1st place team in the over-regulated dress category"

this has nothing to do with sport and everything to do with being whining A-hole

Imagine if you were in an XC race and you thought you were beating all the guys from one team because you didn't see any of their uniforms ahead of you.

Out of tinman's top 4 runners there were 3 completely different uniforms. That's egregious. The guys right behind them probably had no clue they were on the same team as each other. That makes a huge difference.

This happened in 2010

tinman fraud wrote:

fair's fare wrote:

well if they do revoke it over this then they should change the trophy to "1st place team in the over-regulated dress category"

this has nothing to do with sport and everything to do with being whining A-hole

Imagine if you were in an XC race and you thought you were beating all the guys from one team because you didn't see any of their uniforms ahead of you.

Out of tinman's top 4 runners there were 3 completely different uniforms. That's egregious. The guys right behind them probably had no clue they were on the same team as each other. That makes a huge difference.

Usually my strategy in XC is to run as fast as I can. That doesn’t really change based on the colors of the jerseys around me.

tinman fraud wrote:

fair's fare wrote:

well if they do revoke it over this then they should change the trophy to "1st place team in the over-regulated dress category"

this has nothing to do with sport and everything to do with being whining A-hole

Imagine if you were in an XC race and you thought you were beating all the guys from one team because you didn't see any of their uniforms ahead of you.

Out of tinman's top 4 runners there were 3 completely different uniforms. That's egregious. The guys right behind them probably had no clue they were on the same team as each other. That makes a huge difference.

I would rank what they as worse than the Patriots, but not as bad as the Astros.

tinman fraud wrote:

fair's fare wrote:

well if they do revoke it over this then they should change the trophy to "1st place team in the over-regulated dress category"

this has nothing to do with sport and everything to do with being whining A-hole

Imagine if you were in an XC race and you thought you were beating all the guys from one team because you didn't see any of their uniforms ahead of you.

Out of tinman's top 4 runners there were 3 completely different uniforms. That's egregious. The guys right behind them probably had no clue they were on the same team as each other. That makes a huge difference.

Except no team was ‘right behind’ them. Tinman’s 7th runner was 1:26 ahead of the 2nd place teams 5th runner. That dude would’ve needed binoculars to tell jerseys apart. Their team time was 1:05 per athlete better than 2nd place...roughly 350 meters. They also put 6 guys in front of everybody else’s #2.

Normally I loathe all this detail rule chasing, but this time there is something to it.

The line to get uniforms checked today was long and took away from warm up time. It was stressful getting it all done.

If a team just decided to skip it, they would have a better warmup and lose all the stress of waiting in line.

I don't think it really matters. The only reason why they weren't wearing the same kit is that some of them are sponsored and some aren't. They aren't doing it to try and get an edge. The guys are just trying to make a living.

yeahh idk bud wrote:

I don't think it really matters. The only reason why they weren't wearing the same kit is that some of them are sponsored and some aren't. They aren't doing it to try and get an edge. The guys are just trying to make a living.

I’ll remember that my next high school meet, and wear a singlet from the grocery store I work at. No big deal right?

Oh wait....if I even wear an undershirt when it is 15 degrees it needs to be the same brand as the uniform. Huh. Funny these rules!

tinman fraud wrote:

fair's fare wrote:

well if they do revoke it over this then they should change the trophy to "1st place team in the over-regulated dress category"

this has nothing to do with sport and everything to do with being whining A-hole

Imagine if you were in an XC race and you thought you were beating all the guys from one team because you didn't see any of their uniforms ahead of you.

Out of tinman's top 4 runners there were 3 completely different uniforms. That's egregious. The guys right behind them probably had no clue they were on the same team as each other. That makes a huge difference.

Walk me through how this decision making plays out during the race. You're running behind a guy. You think you can beat him... Then you estimate the team score in your head, decide you don't actually need to beat him, and say "F it" and hang back?

rules rules rules ja wrote:

Normally I loathe all this detail rule chasing, but this time there is something to it.

The line to get uniforms checked today was long and took away from warm up time. It was stressful getting it all done.

If a team just decided to skip it, they would have a better warmup and lose all the stress of waiting in line.

This is an unfortunate situation. Everyone knows who won. Everyone knows the uniforms not matching wasn't the difference between winning or not, but as this person said above those who followed the rules had to jump through additional hoops that did have some sort of impact on their race.

I'm glad I'm not the one who has to make the call on this one because I would lean towards not counting the individuals results toward the team unless they wore the team uniform. I wouldn't DQ anyone, but it sounds like Tinman Elite might not have even had a full scoring team.

Honestly, this is super amateur of Tinman elite. I've coached at the high school level and competed at the professional level (as a cyclist) and can't imagine the team I was coaching or the team i was competing on not wearing the same uniform. It's a matter of common sense. That they didn't wear the same uniform tells me they weren't taking this race seriously.

[quote]tinman fraud wrote:

Imagine if you were in an XC race /quote]

I imagine to beat every runner I can regardless of what team they are or aren't on.

Reed wasn't wearing Tracksmith...

https://www.instagram.com/p/B6EfL2zp5qT/

If you take Morgan (for whatever illogical reason) out, they still Whoop (24karat) the reset of the field.

High school girl runner wrote:

Oh wait....if I even wear an undershirt when it is 15 degrees it needs to be the same brand as the uniform. Huh. Funny these rules!

Wrong

NFHS Rule 4.3, Art 1, b 7;

"Any visible garment(s) worn underneath the uniform top and/or bottom is considered a

foundation garment. Foundation garments are not subject to logo/trademark/reference or

color restrictions."

tinman fraud wrote:

The Tinman Elite athletes were not wearing the same uniforms. Morgan Pearson was wearing a 361 kit, Reed Fischer was wearing a Tracksmith kit. Other Tinman athletes were wearing Adidas.

This is a clear violation of USATF Club rules, they are not properly affiliated. Their team championship should be revoked and the prize money should be taken away.

Results here:

https://results.leonetiming.com/xc.html?mid=1933

Race video here:

https://www.usatf.tv/gprofile.php?mgroup_id=45365&mgroup_event_id=16&year=2019&do=videos&video_id=288140

Who cares if they were wearing pink tutus? They won. Pretty weak to even consider taking away a win like that.

I went to high school in biblethumberland. One of the rules was the dumb uniform thing.

Luckily at state XC I was the only one running from my team, I went as individual, we missed by team. The day dawned cold and bright, and I had zero issue wearing a red T-shirt under my red singlet. Eff them.

Props to Tinman Elite for their great showing.

Having said that, if you are going to have a rule, enforce it, with exceptions on appeal. Otherwise ditch it.

The different uniforms are only a small part of the violation. The biggest issue is that the group of people they put together and raced as a team does not meet the definition of a team per USATF rules. I would like to see the addresses they registered with. Here is the rule:

USATF Competition Rule 4.2, in Open Cross Country competition, an athlete who is a non-resident member of an Association is eligible to compete for a team in that Association only if the athlete:

a) resides in an adjoining Association with government-defined Metropolitan Statistical Area (MSA) of a city which is primarily in the neighboring Association as approved by the appropriate sport committee or council; or

b) has historical membership based upon Association residency (at least 3 years continuous USATF membership years) is eligible to compete for that club.