Training Log: Improving 70' HM to 65' in 18 weeks

You don't know it, but you just put up the JS Bat Signal.

He will get you down to 65 minutes in three months and get you a Nike deal within two years using his magic formula!

SouthernFriedRealist wrote:

You don't know it, but you just put up the JS Bat Signal.

He will get you down to 65 minutes in three months and get you a Nike deal within two years using his magic formula!

Haha yeah I have seen him around...

I'm putting what I did in bold and what I had planned in parentheses.

Mon - 5mi @ 7:39 (5mi recovery (as slow as I want))

Tue - 10mi @ 6:58 (10mi easy (~7:00))

Wed - 4.25mi w/ 6x8s hills (6mi recovery and 6x8s hills (generous recoveries) and 4 strides)

--Emergency bathroom break stopped this run early. I did the hill reps but not the strides and cut the mileage a little short. No big deal, but can't make it a habit. Just a little holiday eating messing with my routine

Thu - 12mi: 6:59, 6:40, 6:43, 6:32, 6:44, 6:28, 6:13, 6:06, 6:13, 5:52, 5:57, 5:56 (12mi progress to easy tempo (~6:00-5:50))

--Pretty much exactly what I intended to do. I'm thinking I might want to keep the progression like this and as the runs get longer, extend the time at 5:50-6:00 pace

Fri - 5mi @ 8:18 (5mi recovery)

Sat - 8mi w/ ~16min LT: 5:21, 5:28, 5:34 (8mi w/ 20min LT (~5:20))

--I started the LT with a tailwind and turned around early into the 2nd mile and ran back into a strong headwind. Kinda rusty with LT effort so it was hard to find a rhythm at the right effort for the day and conditions. I cut it short because I was feeling very weak/sleepy, not a proper workout kind of tired. I don't know why that was. Feeling fine now and I have a lot of LT stuff planned so I'll get better at executing these runs. I'm tempted to do them on the track though to help with consistent pacing. Even if it's windy, at least every lap split should be even.

14mi progression (treadmill), 5mi getting down to ~6:30, then 3mi 6:18, 3mi 6:00, 3mi 5:49 (14mi progress to easy tempo)

--On a treadmill because I was out of town. Room temp with no airflow meant I sweat a ton and felt uncomfortable but my breathing was easy and my legs felt pretty good. They got tired toward the end but not like I couldn't easily keep going.

58.3mi total (60mi)

And just for fun, I'll share weight too, which definitely needs to come down this cycle if I'm gonna get anywhere near my goal:

153.4 lbs avg

(weigh myself daily, provide the avg for the week)

-----------------------------

Next week, almost the same but I think I'm gonna be doing a race on Sunday instead of a long run. I want to do very similar weeks for a little bit just to feel like I've got a base of something I'm used to and know I can handle. I don't think I'll have any other races popping up for a long time after this one.

57mi:

5mi recovery

10mi easy

6mi recovery and 6x8s hills and 4x100 strides

12mi progression to easy tempo

5mi recovery

9mi easy and 8x100 strides

10mi with a race

Mon - 5mi @ ~8:30 on treadmill (5mi recovery)

--I was still in Sacramento. I probably should have run this outside but went with the convenient choice.

Tue - 10mi @ 6:59 (10mi easy (~7:00))

Wed - 5.5mi w/ 6x8s hills & 4 strides (6mi recovery and 6x8s hills (generous recoveries) and 4 strides)

--Went well but I was short on time so I cut it a half mile short. Speed work is definitely my favorite. GPS has me hitting 3:00-3:30 pace (not average, but peak once I've fully accelerated). No idea if that's accurate... doesn't really matter.

Thur - off (12mi progress to easy tempo (~6:00-5:50))

--I couldn't run for personal reasons. Extremely unusual circumstances here. Not something that'll be a repeated issue. But since I was thinking about racing on Sunday, I decided to be positive about it and enjoy the rested legs.

Fri - 5mi @ 7:41 (5mi recovery)

--When legs get a rest, "recovery" pace speeds up quite a bit. Same HR here as 8:30 pace on some other days...

Sat - 8mi w/ 8 strides - 6:57 pace (8mi w/ 8 strides)

--Of course, my legs were still feeling fresh, but tight. The strides helped feel better.

Sun - 4.5mi race @ 5:06 pace (4.5mi race)

--I did the full course for a 4.5mi warmup and got up to 12.7mi for the day with cooldown. In the race I was aggressive (getting down to 4:50 pace) and then blew up. My legs never felt challenged but I guess aerobically I was challenged? I don't know if how you felt in a race can help you figure out what your weakness is and what kind of training would help the most. I don't have much training at this pace so that could be an issue too. In any case, it was a good stimulus for training.

46.4mi total

153.4 lbs avg (Again. I ate a lot at CIM last weekend Sunday + Monday, and then missing a 12 miler didn't help. Weight should start coming down next week).

Good work, keep it up!!

Mon - 6mi @ 8:05 (6mi recovery)

Tue - 11mi @ 6:55 (11mi easy (~7:00))

Wed - 7mi w/ 6x8s hills & 4 strides (7mi recovery and 6x8s hills (generous recoveries) and 4 strides)

--Figuring out a better routine for this. I think I have to take a little longer recoveries. For the first few hill reps 1:30 is ok, but by the last one I need 3:00. Still really enjoying getting to go fast.

Thur - 12mi: 7:11, 6:46, 6:49, 6:35, 6:34, 6:28, 5:58, 6:03, 6:02, 5:53, 5:48, 5:57 (12mi progress to easy tempo (~6:00-5:50))

--Can't remember how I felt. I guess I gotta take notes during the week. I think it was just pretty normal, not that easy but not that hard.

Fri - 5mi @ 8:03 (5mi recovery)

Sat - 9.5mi w/ 22min @ 5:20 (9mi w/ 22min LT)

--I did this around the track. I wasn't feeling great on the warmup but it didn't seem to be a problem once I got going. So much nicer doing this on the track as far as pacing and finding the right zone. I think that beyond the physiological benefits, regularly doing this pace will help me mentally get used to running at a pace that causes some discomfort/stress. I'm really looking forward to increasing the duration at this effort and going into a race with a whole training cycle of these runs.

Sun - 14mi: 7:14, 7:04, 6:54, 6:47, 6:36, 6:26, 6:18, 6:00, 5:53, 5:55, 5:54, 5:42, 5:45, 5:48 (14mi progress to easy tempo (~6:00-5:50))

--This went really well. It was raining and my clothes were totally soaked (and socks too) by the end but I was hitting faster paces at the same perceived effort and at the same or lower heart rate. This is still the route that is slightly uphill going out and downhill coming back, so I think if I'm aiming for 6:00-5:50 objectively, then actually hitting sub 5:50 is pretty appropriate and not overreaching.

64.5mi total (64.0mi planned)

153.3 lbs avg Down 0.1 pounds! I still need to get this going, especially since now is probably the best time to be losing weight before I hit some harder weeks of training. Ultimately no training will be as helpful as dropping 10 pounds so I've really gotta take my eating as seriously as my training.

Next week I am bumping the long runs up to 13mi and 15mi. Saturday won't be a tempo again, just some strides. Otherwise same week structure as normal.

My lower back and upper glutes have been sore. Every run they are sore and cause discomfort. I'm not sure if it's something that'll go away or something I need to ramp up massage and stretching in order to treat. I know legs just get tired and even easy runs aren't always comfortable but I wasn't planning on this amount of consistent soreness.

Mon - 4mi @ 8:15 (4mi recovery)

Tue - 11mi @ 7:00 (11mi easy (~7:00))

--I felt a little more fatigued on Monday and Tuesday this week. Last week was the highest mileage week of my life but overall I'm still so early in the training cycle that I'm pretty fresh. Overall still feeling good.

Wed - 7mi w/ 6x8s hills & 4 strides (7mi recovery and 6x8s hills (generous recoveries) and 4 strides)

--I didn't feel great because I think I cut too many calories in the days leading up to this. I took a little longer recovery between hill reps like I planned and it helped.

Thur - 13mi: 7:18, 6:57, 6:58, 6:42, 6:26, 6:15, 6:06, 5:57, 6:00, 5:56, 5:49, 5:49, 5:49 (13mi progress to easy tempo (~6:00-5:50))

--I was happy to feel pretty well-recovered going into this despite feeling a little fatigued earlier in the week. Great run.

Fri - 6mi @ 7:59 (6mi recovery)

Sat - 8.3mi w/ 7 strides, 200m fast (26.3) (10mi w/ 8 strides)

--I had it in my head that I had 8mi total for the day but it was supposed to be 10. I need to double-check it because I'm not used to following a plan. Anyway, I wanted to get a benchmark for my speed so I ran a self-timed 200m in 26.3. I was hoping for better but I think my speed will improve a lot this cycle with all the little hill sprints and strides and weight loss. After this training cycle's goal race I plan to train for a mile road race so I care about establishing some decent speed.

Sun - 15mi: 7:04, 6:52, 6:50, 6:37, 6:36, 6:31, 6:22, 6:12, 6:08, 6:07, 6:04, 5:46, 5:47, 5:50, 5:51 (15mi progress to easy tempo (~6:00-5:50))

--Mentally I had a breakthrough on this run, realizing I'm now used to this mileage. I don't find it daunting. I felt a lot more comfortable at the end of the run. My HR was the same as usual, as was my breathing and my leg fatigue, but I found it easy to feel relaxed and comfortable and grind it out.

64.9mi total (66.0mi planned) Last week was my highest mileage week ever and this one was 0.4 bigger. Going up next week to 69 and then coming back down after that.

153.0 lbs avg Down 0.3 pounds. I was cutting a lot of calories early in the week, then felt awful mid-week and it was Christmas so I ate a lot for a few days. I ended up averaging 0.3 pounds lower for the week but I think I can zero in on the correct amount to eat so that I lose more than that while still feeling good.

I have been stretching more and it has helped my lower back. But it's still a weak point. I worry for my feet, which sometimes feel beat up, and my hips and lower back causing problems. Other than those potential injury concerns, I feel very optimistic. Training load feels good. It's going to increase but I feel ready for that. I think I can survive until I have down weeks and eventually taper.

Next week will be fairly tough with a threshold run back on the menu and a 16mi long run for 69mi total.

You sound very talented and I think 65 is a good goal. If you don't achieve it this spring, I hope you go for it again in the fall - or try a marathon or 10k if you have that desire after the spring season.

Mon - 5mi @ 8:12 (5mi recovery)

--I actually really felt the 200m all-out at this point. My legs felt more tired than usual.

Tue - 11mi @ 6:50 (11mi easy (~7:00))

--Legs still felt tired in an unusual way which I continue to suspect is the fault of the 200. I didn't think it'd have much of an effect but I guess any new stimulus is rough at first. Of course, the hill sprints are similar but the 200m was over 3x as long of all-out effort.

Wed - 8.5mi w/ 7x8s hills & 3 strides (8mi recovery and 6x8s hills (generous recoveries) and 4 strides)

--Legs still feeling tired but I think I hit my normal paces on the hills and strides. To put an extra nail in the coffin, for some reason I thought I do 8 hill sprints so I did a 7th before I realized my watch's workout program had moved on to strides. Thus, 7 hills and 3 strides this week.

Thur - 13mi: 7:17, 6:52, 6:47, 6:37, 6:28, 6:18, 6:08, 5:57, 5:55, 5:40, 5:43, 5:53, 5:54 (13mi progress to easy tempo (~6:00-5:50))

--I think if I hadn't done hill sprints my legs would've felt normal at this point but the hill sprints extended the fatigue. Still it proved to be more of a feeling than an actual hindrance and I hit some good splits. But I was a little worried about the end of the week.

Fri - 6mi @ 7:59 (6mi recovery)

Sat - 10mi w/ 24min @ 5:16 (10mi w/ 24min @ 5:18)

--My legs felt pretty good going into this, thankfully. I had done 5:20 pace before and that felt like the right effort that day, but I have to progress, so the goal was 5:18. The first two miles were harder than the final ~2.5. Maybe it's just a matter of getting fully warmed up and HR up? But I get the burning feeling and discomfort for a while before it clears up and I find a clean and comfortably hard rhythm. I ended up going a little faster than I needed to and I felt like I could have gently pushed the pace and that I also could have gone longer. Really good signs, since I'll need to do both of those things soon.

Sun - 16mi: 7:04, 6:51, 6:54, 6:38, 6:35, 6:26, 6:19, 6:01, 6:10, 5:54, 5:51, 5:44, 5:41, 5:37, 5:42, 5:42 (16mi progress to easy tempo (~6:00-5:50))

--Wow, couldn't have asked for better. I was a little concerned that I'd hit the wall on this run because I'm in a calorie deficit and my routine is to finish eating at around 5:30pm and then run at ~5:00am the next morning without eating anything. But I felt good through the end. My legs felt good. Weather was perfect. The kind of improvement I'm looking for this cycle, this effort run should eventually be ending in some sub 5:30 miles. The longest run I have planned is 18mi and I don't feel like I'll need to fuel for it based on how this went. Tacking on 2 more would not have been a big deal today.

69.5mi total (669.0mi planned) The third week in a row of hitting the highest weekly mileage of my life. This was a more significant jump. Next week is gonna be lower, but I'll build up to 70's later on.

152.4 lbs avg Down 0.6 pounds. Not bad but I can do better. Still, if I did this every week, I'd be a great weight on race day. But I'd rather lose the weight now and not eat a calorie deficit during the peak of the training cycle.

Not much else to add. Very pleased about this week. But I feel like I've earned it by eating healthy, sleeping well, focusing during my runs to execute them well, and the preparation I put in to figure out a training load that is right for me.

Solid training. Keep up the strong work. I look forward to following your progression.

Mon - 5mi @ 8:06 (5mi recovery)

Tue - 10mi @ 6:59 (10mi easy (~7:00))

Wed - 6.15mi w/ 6x8s hills & 4 strides (6mi recovery and 6x8s hills (generous recoveries) and 4 strides)

--Hills and strides were back to feeling normal

Thur - 12mi: 7:02, 6:52, 6:36, 6:15, 6:10, 6:02, 5:44, 5:43, 5:46, 5:43, 5:46, 5:45 (12mi progress to easy tempo)

--Still trending faster on these.

Fri - 5mi @ 7:28 (5mi recovery)

--I was short on time so I went a little faster to save a few minutes. This is probably the pace I should generally be going for recovery runs, except after really hard days. But I'd rather keep these super relaxed so I'll be back to 7:50-8:15 pace in the future.

Sat - 11mi @ 6:55 w/ 8 strides (11mi @ ~7:00 with 8 strides)

--As I said I was short on time on Friday, so I didn't do any stretching or rolling. Which, after just one day, made my legs feel pretty bad. I get really tight really quickly. The strides were good to help loosen my legs up but these were not the most relaxed and comfortable strides.

Sun - 14mi: 6:50, 6:46, 6:49, 6:30, 6:18, 6:09, 6:05, 5:49, 5:44, 5:38, 5:36, 5:37, 5:36, 5:37 (14mi progress to easy tempo)

--I went ahead and removed the 5:50-6:00 target pace because I think I've progressed beyond that. Reminder that the first half of these runs is slightly uphill and the second half slightly downhill so the final mile splits tend to be a little faster than the effort they required. This was the end of a down week so it made sense that this was my fastest one yet. Aerobically this felt comfortable but my legs did feel a little challenged (not like it was remotely actually hard but my legs worked a little harder relative to other easy tempo efforts).

63.2mi total (63.0mi planned) A month ago this would've equaled my biggest week ever but now it's a down week. Hopefully I can actually survive this bump in mileage. So far so good.

xxx lbs avg After some reflection I think I've been oscillating between undereating and overeating, which has resulted in gradual weight loss, but isn't the right way to do it. The undereating would feel good for a short time but wasn't sustainable. I'm getting fitter and faster despite not losing a significant amount of weight yet, so I think the thing to do is to eat healthy but not limit food at all, stay energized, and see if my weight changes at all like that. If not, then at least I know a good baseline diet to work from and figure out where I can make some small cuts in calories to gradually lose weight.

The original plan was that massively improving my training and leaning out like a pro simultaneously would result in a huge improvement in a short time, which would've been fun to do. I'm not as sure that I can run so fast at the end of this cycle without getting leaner but I know I can still make a huge improvement. Getting my body composition perfect could be something to work on down the line for further improvements.

I'm going to keep the goal the same because I still think I can do it.

Next week I have an LT pace workout. I think I may have been running the previous ones too slow so I'm gonna jump to 5:10 pace and see how that feels.

interesting thread. I was just thinking that you were too worried about your diet, abut then you came to your senses this week. Smart call. I'd still watch the overeating and try not to eat more than what makes you feel full, but I think that fasting after 5:30pm was a bad call.

One diet thing I struggle with is eating more just because it's sitting in front of me and there isn't much left. If you cook up a big meal, put a portion or two of it in the fridge before eating and if you're still hungry after eating some, fill up with fruits or veggies instead and drink some water.

Really enjoying following this thread. Thanks for the consistent posts!

Time to send up the JS Bat Signal!

This kind of unstructured training will be far from goal 65. You need the DANCAN system and Batman himself to have a possible chance to come close to 65.

Good posts

How much are you eating to maintain weight on this mileage?

Just waiting for JS to come along and make things hilarious and LRC-esque: this thread has been too positive, insightful and enjoyable to follow. Too good to be true

Uhh so I sometimes have a VPN on when I browse LRC and apparently those IP's were flagged as suspicious and my account got banned as a result of using those IP's? So I made another account with VPN off, hopefully this works.

reed wrote:

but I think that fasting after 5:30pm was a bad call.

Crazily enough, that is just the routine that works best for me. I'm eating more now but still pretty much sticking to that. I go to bed early and wake up early. I fall asleep around 7:30-8:30 and wake up around 3:45-4:15. I found that stopping eating by 6 at the latest makes it easier for me to fall asleep. A late meal, especially high in carbs, keeps me up. Your advice is good though, thanks.

BuyTheDip wrote:

Good posts

How much are you eating to maintain weight on this mileage?

Thanks. I haven't been counting for about a week and a half now but I think around 3500 calories is my best guess for maintenance. Now that I'm feeling energized all day, I'm gonna try to track things a little better. I had been eating 2500-3000 before and that was cutting too much. I think 3000-3300 might be a good amount for slow weight loss. I also walk around 15-20 miles a week.

-------------

Ok, onto the training.

Mon - 3mi @ 8:09 (3mi recovery)

--Taking it real easy trying to get fully recovered before a tough stretch

Tue - 10mi @ 6:56 (10mi easy (~7:00))

Wed - 16min (4min jog) 13min @ 5:12 (16min (4min jog) 13min @5:10)

--Targeting 5:10 pace, a big jump from the 5:16 I did last time. I only ended up averaging 5:12 but there was an unavoidable ~20m icy patch on the track that I think is fair to say slowed me down 2 seconds per mile. This felt really good. There was no rough patch early on like I've had before. Toward the end, my legs were getting tired but not anywhere near the point I'd need to slow down. I'm going to be increasing duration on these so I'm not sure if I want to keep increasing pace. Maybe just a little.

Thur - 12mi: 6:49, 6:45, 6:37, 6:23, 6:23, 6:05, 6:00, 5:50, 5:51, 5:44, 6:01, 6:02 (12mi progress to easy tempo)

--My legs didn't feel that bad. There was a brutal headwind at the end of this one. Tailwind going out, then a decent headwind coming back (for the 6:00, 5:50, 5:51, 5:44 miles). And then for the final two miles, it was like a gust that didn't go away. I always run these by HR and perceived effort which came in handy for these conditions. So anyway those final two miles are nothing to worry about.

Fri - 6mi @ 7:56 (6mi recovery)

Sat - 9mi @ 6:58 w/ 6x8s hills (generous recoveries) and 4 strides (9mi @ ~7:00 w/ 6x8s hills (generous recoveries) and 4 strides)

--This felt great. Honestly I'm not really doing strides the way most people do strides. I do them a little faster. They are more like 10s @ 800 effort. And these were the fastest I've ever done but also felt very easy and smooth. It's weird that early in the run, my legs feel a little tired and stiff and I'm dreading the hill sprints and strides, but after I do the speed work, I feel great. A casual runner who just runs by feel might get discouraged early in the run and feel like they need a recovery day (which is the way I "trained" a lot in the past). In fact, a lot of my runs have felt worse in the first half than the second. I really like the training philosophy of making a plan, doing your best to follow it and make it succeed, but then having periodic self-reflection to avoid overtraining and undertraining.

Sun - 14mi: 6:45, 6:38, 6:36, 6:21, 6:24, 6:11, 6:02, 5:50, 5:40, 5:41, 5:36, 5:29, 5:38, 5:44 (14mi progress to easy tempo)

--Great run. It's getting easier to get warmed up and ready to go faster paces. This one especially felt that way. For the 5:50, 5:40, 5:41 miles, I was keeping my HR under 160. Then for the final 3, I took the effort up a notch to low 160's. So I popped that 5:29 on a downhill mile when I first took the effort up a little. The final 2 miles had more headwind again but my legs also got tired on the last mile. If this had been a longer run, it would've been a grinder.

When I do these runs the day after hill sprints, I think my legs have a little more trouble with the hills. And they are tiny "hills" -- actually just underpasses and overpasses, so a moderately steep 25 foot hill. But it seems to stick a little more fatigue in my legs and throws me off my rhythm for a bit.

64.3mi total (64.0mi planned)

xxx lbs avg I haven't been weighing myself regularly but I have weighed a few times and I put on maybe 2 pounds in the last week, which I think just means I'm staying a little more well-stocked on glycogen.

Next up I'm going to spend some weeks adding more time at LT and adding on a mile here and there to build mileage back up to 70 or so.

Super pleased with this week again. I survived the jump in LT pace and last week's jump in pace on the easy tempo turned out to not be a fluke. Just gotta keep taking care of myself and grind out these weeks and I should see a pretty big boost in fitness come from this training by March, in time for some peak workouts to test my fitness a little before I taper and race. If it all works out like that, I could see myself actually being within reach of the goal.

fasting from 5:30pm is not that insane if you go to bed at 8pm...now THAT's insane

OP who's gonna read all that crap, keep it short

Keep it up! You would probably be faster than Jim Walsey with a similar volume!