New to coaching girls. We’ve had great success but a few girls were having problems had “low-normal” ferritin their doctors say is fine but wanted your opinion. One was at 13 and the other 17. They’ve gotten a bit slower as the season goes on. Doc says they are just fine but something seems off to me.
Ferritin at 40mpw should be....?
you've slipped in surrealism.
New to HS girls wrote:
New to coaching girls. We’ve had great success but a few girls were having problems had “low-normal” ferritin their doctors say is fine but wanted your opinion. One was at 13 and the other 17. They’ve gotten a bit slower as the season goes on. Doc says they are just fine but something seems off to me.
Ferritin at 40mpw should be....?
Way too low. You want them over 30 at the very least and preferably even higher than that.
New to HS girls wrote:
New to coaching girls. We’ve had great success but a few girls were having problems had “low-normal” ferritin their doctors say is fine but wanted your opinion. One was at 13 and the other 17. They’ve gotten a bit slower as the season goes on. Doc says they are just fine but something seems off to me.
Ferritin at 40mpw should be....?
There is no single answer to this question. I knew of elite distance runners who were running 100+ a week with low-ish ferritin levels just fine. Had others who were fine and struggled. You need to look at the whole person and situation and not just one thing. Also, iron status is more complex than just ferritin.
Had those athletes has that test in the past? If so, you can make comparisons.
Definitely too low. We like to see 30 as a minimum with 50+ as ideal.
It could be an intensity problem rather than mileage problem though. I see low ferritin in my kids that are running their easy and/or long runs too hard.
hs girls coach wrote:
Definitely too low. We like to see 30 as a minimum with 50+ as ideal.
It could be an intensity problem rather than mileage problem though. I see low ferritin in my kids that are running their easy and/or long runs too hard.
What do you use to supplement if the girl tends toward
Is this a thing now? Are HS girls getting their ferritin checked regularly?
pathfinder wrote:
Is this a thing now? Are HS girls getting their ferritin checked regularly?
Are you serious, we were testing for it 20 years ago, it is an issue, get with it,
the new path wrote:
pathfinder wrote:
Is this a thing now? Are HS girls getting their ferritin checked regularly?
Are you serious, we were testing for it 20 years ago, it is an issue, get with it,
Jesus. Sorry I asked.
I'm not hanging out with high school girls, so I asked a question.
Have them all have oatmeal with chocolate chips. It might not help but it will be fun and show you care.
Was anemic due to overtraining in HS. Ferretin was 10 and hemoglobin as well.
Did a lot of research and supplemented with Hemme Iron Pro Ferrin tabs (it is animal based absorbed more rapidly by different receptor in gut). Now a 67. Also alternated with Hemme-Plex Iron when ran out of Pro Ferrin. Make sure they get retests as too much iron is toxic. All those starbucks coffees and teas inhibit iron absorption and so does calcium.
Take with vit c to help absporption. Good luck. Low ferretin is like dimming the lights after the first mile. So tired and heavy legs.
pathfinder wrote:
Is this a thing now? Are HS girls getting their ferritin checked regularly?
I don't think it's something that is happening regularly. On our team, kids have only gotten it checked if when coaches specifically recommended it. We only recommend if we suspect that something is off and all but one of the kids we've recommended had a ferritin below 15 (the only one that didn't had normal ferritin but was anemic). We probably average 1-2 girls a year with issues, although I feel it's an area we have gotten better in as our training has gotten better.
I'm not quite as knowledgeable on supplements and don't feel qualified to recommend one. Phoebe Wright had a fantastic thread on Twitter about a month ago that addressed the different types of iron supplements as well as frequency and food pairings to maximize the absorption. It's absolutely worth a read and might point in the right direction of the conversations that need to be had with a doctor.
New to HS girls wrote:
New to coaching girls. We’ve had great success but a few girls were having problems had “low-normal” ferritin their doctors say is fine but wanted your opinion. One was at 13 and the other 17. They’ve gotten a bit slower as the season goes on. Doc says they are just fine but something seems off to me.
Ferritin at 40mpw should be....?
Breakfast:
A bowl of 1/2 oatmeal 1/2 cream of wheat with a pat of butter and one or two tablespoons of Plantation brand blackstrap molasses (yellow label).
Of course add fruit raisins whatever else they want to add to it.
That's a safe way to maintain a healthy iron level without worrying about iron pills. Blackstrap molasses is low in sugar.
Most often want girls above 50. Ideally 60-70 but as all things it is individual. Had an absolute stud who ran really well anytime in the 130ish range.
Way bigger issue than people think and Doctors are terrible. We were 6 for 6 on girls getting tested and being low. Not a huge concern with anyone being too high, if they are tested low and running a fair amount, don’t worry about it, get them on something. We take Hema-Plex.
Low ferritin sucks: anything below 30 is low. And moving the dial on ferritin is a bisch. If you find out in one season it is low, and start supplementing aggressively, it will be the next season before it gets better. Better to supplement before you have a problem. Like yesterday.
It affects at least half of the distance girls on our team, including both of my daughters. One is celiac, so that makes it worse. Much worse.
The latest protocol, with limited scientific backing, is to take 2x iron every other day to improve absorption. We do it this way now, but I cannot say it is any better than taking 1x everyday.
Doctors don't know shite about endurance girls/women. Our pediatrician said daughter's iron was "normal", but did not give us the number. When asked, said it was 13. The bottom end is 12!!!!! Worst of all was the hematologist who looked at my celiac daughters ferritin of 14 and said "her iron levels couldn't possibly be the the cause of her fatigue." With emphasis "COULDN'T POSSIBLY BE THE CAUSE OF HER FATIGUE!!!!!!!!!". What a buffoon.
Celiac daughter runs mid-major D1 distance and her sports medicine people say minimum ferritin of 45. Needless to say, she redshirted with ferritin at 12, down from 14 a month before yet supplementing every g-dammed day for months.
Telltale signs of crashing ferritin: girl who starts the season well but starts to fade badly in races mid-season, for no apparent reason. Both daughters affected like this in 2017 XC season, we got iron-religion, supplemented like crazy, and got them up enough to win the state XC team championship. They finished 3 and 4 on the team. Whole family was white knuckled for weeks trying to get the ferritin up.
Summer training can easily mask a problem: kids do lots of running, but no workouts or races. The problem, at least for my kids, is that it only shows up at the end of races, not daily runs and not even most workouts. And other sports give no indication of a problem because they typically are not bumping up against their aerobic limits. One daughter played Spring lacrosse and low ferritin had no impact. So no incentive to supplement. Bad mistake. Remember it takes FOREVER to move ferritin so we should have been supplementing non-stop.
Hearsay, but friend says the Syracuse women are all on iron supplements, whether they want to or not. Source said they use Hema-Plex pills. We have used Pro-ferrin (heme iron pills) and Nova-Ferrum 125 (polysaccaride iron complex liquid) with decent success. (All three are available on Amazon Prime). The iron you choose can make a big difference on absorption and tolerance. Skip the non-heme iron completely. And for god sakes do not think you can tame this beast with iron-rich foods. That is taking a knife to a gunfight.
My advice is that every HS girl runner starts taking iron supplements NOW, unless you run for our arch rival. Once supplementing, get your blood tested. If you are above 30, then reduce (but not eliminate) the supplementation. In our area, a standard blood panel does not include ferritin or vitamin d, so ask for both. Get the results sent to you and track them over time. DO NOT take your doctors word when they say the results are normal. They are clueless. Get the numbers.
Some relevant research:
"Endurance exercise increases whole body iron turnover and iron losses via the gastrointestinal tract, hematuria and hemoglobinuria, elevating the estimated average requirement for athletes by 30–70%." No mention of menstruation, which adds to the problem.
The threshold is 50. Below that is not sufficient for female endurance athletes.
This is what a Google search says are foods naturally high in iron
I also saw something recently about an iron cooking device that you add to boiling water that naturally adds iron to the food being boiled
Also just for General Nutrition seeds such as hemp seeds flax seeds chia seeds pumpkin sunflower shredded coconut and cocoa nibs are super nutritious
Shellfish. . ...
Spinach. Spinach provides many health benefits for very few calories. ...
Liver and Other Organ Meats. Organ meats are extremely nutritious. ...
Legumes. Legumes are loaded with nutrients. ...
Red Meat. ...
Pumpkin Seeds. ...
Quinoa. ...
Turkey.
Luv2Run speaks well. I knew an Olympicc Gold medalist (male 800 runner) whose ferritin was always in the mid 20s and stayed there over time. An example about what is good or not so good is best determined from periodic tests. 30 is good if 6 weeks ago it was 20 and 30 is not good if 6 weeks ago it was 50. Normal range is bout 30 to 300, but that doesn't mean 300 is better than 30.
Blazing Slow Poke wrote:
Low ferritin sucks: anything below 30 is low. And moving the dial on ferritin is a bisch. If you find out in one season it is low, and start supplementing aggressively, it will be the next season before it gets better. Better to supplement before you have a problem. Like yesterday.
It affects at least half of the distance girls on our team, including both of my daughters. One is celiac, so that makes it worse. Much worse.
The latest protocol, with limited scientific backing, is to take 2x iron every other day to improve absorption. We do it this way now, but I cannot say it is any better than taking 1x everyday.
Doctors don't know shite about endurance girls/women. Our pediatrician said daughter's iron was "normal", but did not give us the number. When asked, said it was 13. The bottom end is 12!!!!! Worst of all was the hematologist who looked at my celiac daughters ferritin of 14 and said "her iron levels couldn't possibly be the the cause of her fatigue." With emphasis "COULDN'T POSSIBLY BE THE CAUSE OF HER FATIGUE!!!!!!!!!". What a buffoon.
Celiac daughter runs mid-major D1 distance and her sports medicine people say minimum ferritin of 45. Needless to say, she redshirted with ferritin at 12, down from 14 a month before yet supplementing every g-dammed day for months.
Telltale signs of crashing ferritin: girl who starts the season well but starts to fade badly in races mid-season, for no apparent reason. Both daughters affected like this in 2017 XC season, we got iron-religion, supplemented like crazy, and got them up enough to win the state XC team championship. They finished 3 and 4 on the team. Whole family was white knuckled for weeks trying to get the ferritin up.
Summer training can easily mask a problem: kids do lots of running, but no workouts or races. The problem, at least for my kids, is that it only shows up at the end of races, not daily runs and not even most workouts. And other sports give no indication of a problem because they typically are not bumping up against their aerobic limits. One daughter played Spring lacrosse and low ferritin had no impact. So no incentive to supplement. Bad mistake. Remember it takes FOREVER to move ferritin so we should have been supplementing non-stop.
Hearsay, but friend says the Syracuse women are all on iron supplements, whether they want to or not. Source said they use Hema-Plex pills. We have used Pro-ferrin (heme iron pills) and Nova-Ferrum 125 (polysaccaride iron complex liquid) with decent success. (All three are available on Amazon Prime). The iron you choose can make a big difference on absorption and tolerance. Skip the non-heme iron completely. And for god sakes do not think you can tame this beast with iron-rich foods. That is taking a knife to a gunfight.
My advice is that every HS girl runner starts taking iron supplements NOW, unless you run for our arch rival. Once supplementing, get your blood tested. If you are above 30, then reduce (but not eliminate) the supplementation. In our area, a standard blood panel does not include ferritin or vitamin d, so ask for both. Get the results sent to you and track them over time. DO NOT take your doctors word when they say the results are normal. They are clueless. Get the numbers.
Some relevant research:
"Endurance exercise increases whole body iron turnover and iron losses via the gastrointestinal tract, hematuria and hemoglobinuria, elevating the estimated average requirement for athletes by 30–70%." No mention of menstruation, which adds to the problem.
https://www.nature.com/articles/1602479
Great post, another thing to take into account, once you get you ferritin levels back up, don't stop supplementing, stay on top of it.