I'm not new to running, but I have only recently bothered to study training principles.
It appears that Lydiard is king, but what were his blind spots?
I'm not new to running, but I have only recently bothered to study training principles.
It appears that Lydiard is king, but what were his blind spots?
by modern standards, he was wrong because he didnt coach any girls
There have been significant advancements in the knowledge of the biochemistry of running performance since Lydiard's time. Considering the state of scientific knowledge of the effects of training in his time he got almost nothing wrong.
Emil Zatopek was the first known elite runner to run 100 miles per week on a regular basis along with workouts. Zatopek was a 5000m to Marathon runner. Lydiard stated runners from 800m to Marathon should all run 100 miles a week. One-hundred miles a week may work for some 800m runners. One-hundred miles per week also ruins many 800m runners. Lydiard saw 800m as a distance event. Before Lydiard, 800m was seen as a long sprint. Most elite 800m runners train for 800m as if 800 is a long sprint today.
Lydiard did not realize the value of cross-training.
Lydiard opinions on periodization and limiting anaerobic training to only several weeks a year were not correct.
Lydiards biggest mistake (IMO) was continually claiming that exactly 100 miles per week was the optimism mileage to train each week. This was even tho many of his people were running further than that.
Maybe this was to protect his own group.
More Androgel.
Lydiard's biggest failure was in trying to quantify his training into books and schedules. His actual coaching of Snell and company was absolutely legendary. However, they did not adhere to most of his principles outlined in his books minus the aerobic base phase, of which Snell says he would have added more "light" speedwork. What Lydiard got right was the physiology of distance running and the importance of the aerobic capacity, and general theories.
Every successful undoped distance program in the world does regular long runs, solid aerobic volume, regular tempo runs (from his "time trials"), multitude of strides, limits insane speed workouts, and doubles with one easy run a day. These are his legacy. Coaches totally ignore his hill methodology with the bounding, striding at the top, and the downhill running.
Also he predated EPO. Mega fail.
Arm carry.
His anaerobic work was more quality focused after the first week or two of 20x 400m
Sub-1:43 800m runners do not train as did Snell or as written by Lydiard.
cookie bear wrote:
Lydiards biggest mistake (IMO) was continually claiming that exactly 100 miles per week was the optimism mileage to train each week. This was even tho many of his people were running further than that.
Maybe this was to protect his own group.
From what I've read, the "100 mile weeks" did not include the 2nd easy run of the day - at least for his own runners.
Also, was the hill bounding a early form of plyometrics?
First what did he get right...
High Aerobic Volume
Short Sprints
Long Tempos
Limiting “Hard” workouts that build lactate and lower Ph in the blood
What did he get wrong...
Explaining how to develop youth/high school runners
Coach LL wrote:
First what did he get right...
High Aerobic Volume
Short Sprints
Long Tempos
Limiting “Hard” workouts that build lactate and lower pH in the blood (acidosis)
What did he get wrong...
Explaining how to develop youth/high school runners
Made some corrections
I read his book wrote:
There have been significant advancements in the knowledge of the biochemistry of running performance since Lydiard's time. Considering the state of scientific knowledge of the effects of training in his time he got almost nothing wrong.
How do these advancements in the knowledge of biochemistry relate to his intuition about how to train runners?
They don't much do they?
Overly strict periodization. Most coaches now mix in easy speed work throughout the year just to maintain biomechanics
CoachB wrote:
Overly strict periodization. Most coaches now mix in easy speed work throughout the year just to maintain biomechanics
Which may be better or worse. Lydiard's periodization was aimed at Olympic athletes building to one big peak and it worked, so everyone wanted to know how?
yes, but wrote:
CoachB wrote:
Overly strict periodization. Most coaches now mix in easy speed work throughout the year just to maintain biomechanics
Which may be better or worse. Lydiard's periodization was aimed at Olympic athletes building to one big peak and it worked, so everyone wanted to know how?
It worked IN HIS TIME because it was better than the previous approach (that is, all intervals like Igloi). I doubt the champs from the last Olympics were doing a program that was very similar to Lydiard's.
Interesting topic.
On a sidenote, Lydiard was boring compared to Salazars "Your butt is too big" method.
CoachB wrote:
Overly strict periodization. Most coaches now mix in easy speed work throughout the year just to maintain biomechanics
Just looking at Lydiard's training it appears he never had people do easy speed work in some of the phases. If you believe Frank Shorter "Hills are speed work in disguise". Lydiard's athletes did a lot of easy speed work with the hilly routes they ran.
I'm not sure Lydiard got anything truly wrong while training his athletes. The description of the training was poorly explained in the books in some cases.
just stating the obvious here wrote:
yes, but wrote:
Which may be better or worse. Lydiard's periodization was aimed at Olympic athletes building to one big peak and it worked, so everyone wanted to know how?
It worked IN HIS TIME because it was better than the previous approach (that is, all intervals like Igloi). I doubt the champs from the last Olympics were doing a program that was very similar to Lydiard's.
Well no American athlete has dominated the 800 and 1500 like Peter Snell did. Just saying.
yes, but wrote:
just stating the obvious here wrote:
It worked IN HIS TIME because it was better than the previous approach (that is, all intervals like Igloi). I doubt the champs from the last Olympics were doing a program that was very similar to Lydiard's.
Well no American athlete has dominated the 800 and 1500 like Peter Snell did. Just saying.
That's a red herring. No one is talking about American athletes.