Feeling discouraged about 5k time trial. Want to run sub-19 but am years away.

Don't feel discouraged. These things just take time. The key to being able to run faster, is by running faster. To lower your 5k time, you'll want to be doing probably one speed workout and one tempo workout per week.

Speed work:

12 x 400m W/1-2 mins

8 x 800m W/1:30-2 mins

5-6 x 1k W/2-3 mns

3-4 x 1 mile W/2-3 mins

Tempo work:

3 mile tempo

3 x 1 mile tempo W/30 s

2 x 10 minute tempo W/60s

I think your tempo pace should be in the mid 7:30s.

Apart from this, just run some easy millage. People here disagree with me on this, but I don't think you have to run that much. 30-40 miles over 6 days is plenty for most.

Good luck!

You're disappointed that your 5k time didn't magically improve by 3 minutes during your 18 days off?

your body is completely out of touch with real speed. a period of low mileage 800/1600 training could do a lot for you. 20 to 60 meter all out sprints on flat or hills. 100 to 200m at 400 to 800 pace. 400s at mile to 3k pace. for almost any distance, not a bad idea to always keep a tempo run in every couple weeks.

Around 40-45 mpw will be just fine for you. But you need to do as in my DANCAN -system 12-20 x 400m at 5 k pace and LT-paced intervals of 10-12 km total every week . Do you know your topspeed at 400m ?

Of course not, but I thought I'd be around 21:45-21:50 like I was in the summer. So being at 22:29 was a bit disappointing. The 22:16 is marginally better.

I know not to take as much time off after big races like last time.

Thanks to all who gave advice re: the 800s/1600s.

One nice thing about 5k training vs. marathon training--it's still intense but the actual weekly time commitment is more manageable.

jecht wrote:

I know not to take as much time off after big races like last time.

No, there is nothing wrong with taking time off after a big race. Your problem is expecting to run a PR the first day back. You need to actually begin training before you expect to see results.

jecht wrote:

I ran a marathon on 10/20, with a 1260-mile buildup over 7 months, peaking at 61 mpw in September. Did ok for a beginner, not great (3:24). Weirdly, my lungs felt fine and not out of breath but my legs were toast.

What do you find weird about that?

I thought my lungs would be shot and my legs would be bad too, but I wasn't breathing crazily hard at the end. My legs were another story...

Fair enough. I overestimated what I was capable of. Onto a training block now!

All runners must feel some discouragement at times when they run beneath their expectations. The real test is in one's personal resolve. Do you keep trying? Of course you do, that's what it takes.

Run more, run faster - that's not rocket science, but please try and believe in yourself regardless of your current result. Keep going and you most likely will meet your goal as you are still young (believe it or not) and have time to develop. Consider for a moment, that baring serious injury or significant life change you are still passionate about the sport 10 years from now. Should you be consistent and smart in your preparation I cannot imagine you not realizing and running far beyond your dreams. Who knows, you might be running 2:44 then or quicker, it's not that far fetched.

If you've not read it, read the Hadd thread. It works greatly, especially for your age group and older.

And reread some of the workouts in this thead, they all make a lot of sense. With that said, let yourself believe for a little while. Allow yourself to dream that these things are possible, even if you don't necessarily feel that way, just keep saying to yourself that you can do it. I bet you are going to do great. Best of luck.

Back when I used to race a lot at 800m-10K, I used to run a lot of solo time trials as well. What I found was that I ran 5% slower by myself than in a race. And that is when both are in perfect conditions. Multiplying your 22-low time by 0.95 gives 21:00. Add in the effects of wind and you could easily be in 20:3x shape right now. Your coefficient may be somewhat different (some people don't rise as well to a competitive situation), but over a season if you track your trials v. races you should be able to figure this out.

Another gauge is workouts. Early season, 6x800 with equal rest:work gives a ballpark for me on 5K fitness. Also 10x400 with 90s rest for 1500 speed. These assume decent mileage in the 40-50mi/week range.

18 days with nothing except walking and zone 2 jogging isn’t going to build any 5k specific conditioning, in fact your VO2max may slightly decrease. If you neglected speed-work during your marathon training, I suggest you add up back in slowly (2x a week of 50m-250m sprints, all done at 100m-800m pace and then after a few weeks incorporate flying 30s at full speed) while keeping your base, perhaps run 40 miles instead of 60 at a slightly faster pace (while still staying aerobic obviously, the pace should still be within your easy/moderate range, maybe do more work in zone 3 than zone 2 though) and weekly fartleks are encouraged.

You should be in sub 20 shape in 6 months but you never said anything about your speed. How fast are you in an all out mile? 6:1x? You want to hold that pace for 3 miles then you will be looking at a single all out mile in around 5:30 to reach your goal!

do you recommend mostly 400s for the LT pace as well? Does it matter? Any work outside of 5k and LT pace?

sounds like your not that talented tbh. It's ok, not everyone can be the best.

YMMV wrote:

Back when I used to race a lot at 800m-10K, I used to run a lot of solo time trials as well. What I found was that I ran 5% slower by myself than in a race. And that is when both are in perfect conditions. Multiplying your 22-low time by 0.95 gives 21:00. Add in the effects of wind and you could easily be in 20:3x shape right now. Your coefficient may be somewhat different (some people don't rise as well to a competitive situation), but over a season if you track your trials v. races you should be able to figure this out.

Another gauge is workouts. Early season, 6x800 with equal rest:work gives a ballpark for me on 5K fitness. Also 10x400 with 90s rest for 1500 speed. These assume decent mileage in the 40-50mi/week range.

Why hasn't anyone else pointed this out? Time trials are the slowest. You are not 100 percent!

I don't know what you will run and don't care either.

I saw you were joking about my screenplay once on the board.

Run 2 hour for your 5k.

LOL

and yeah I have a faster 5k PR than you

35mpw is not training. Not even for a 5K.

elviejo wrote:

35mpw is not training. Not even for a 5K.

Train for a 5k and let us know your result

elviejo wrote:

35mpw is not training. Not even for a 5K.

You're right, unless you are supremely talented. Some people can run in the 14's off low milage like that. Maybe faster, I have no idea.