Road Racing and Training Thread - Week Ending 10/27/19

Good morning folks!

M25, 128lbs, 5'7"

PRs: 4:38 mile, 16:10 5K, 1:14:30 HM, 2:46:07 M

2019 Goals: NYCM, CIM (alternative/backup), sub 2:40

=== 10/21/19 - 10/27/19: 75.2 miles ===

> Mon

#1 (5:51): 8.03 miles @8:04

#2 (18:00): 5.13 miles @varying pace, work event

> Tue

#1 (5:56): 9.07 miles @6:25, 4M 2T

5:58, 5:56, 5:55, 5:54, 5:39, 5:36

#2 (10:39): 3.01 miles @8:12

> Wed

#1 (5:57): 8.66 miles @8:07, w/ 6x strides

#2 (11:01): 4.01 miles @8:00

> Thu

#1 (5:55): 8.30 miles @6:41, 3x1mi progression, 2’ jog recovery

5:33, 5:23, 5:11

#2 (11:05): 3.02 miles @7:20, w/ 1mi @5:55

> Fri

#1 (5:55): 8.46 miles @7:49

> Sat

#1 (5:54): 13.27 miles @6:15, Progression

Ending in 5:54, 5:50, 5:52, 5:41, 5:37

800 ft gain

> Sun

#1 (6:58): 4.22 miles @8:10, w/ 4x hill sprints

> Notes

One week out from NYC! Feeling pretty good and fit overall. If the day goes well I think 6:00 pace is definitely within reach, giving myself a goal range of 5:55-6:05! Just need to get through work travels next week, and then the wild logistics day of.

Male, 43, 5’10”, 134 lbs

Goal- 3:05 on 11/24

Plan - Jack Daniels 2Q Plan

S - 9 easy

M - 15 with 8E, 5x800 @6:00 pace, 4x400 @5:45 pace, 2E

T - 6 recovery

W - 10 easy

Th- 10 easy

F- 18 with 2E, 3T at 6:45, 6E, 2T at 6:42, 4E

Sat - Swim 1 mile

Total - 68

Second straight weekly mileage PR, only by 2 miles but I’ll take it. I’m going to try one more week approaching 70 mpw, then it’s three weeks to the marathon so time to think about tapering. Really liking the double digit easy days before the long run, never thought I could do that. Good luck to everyone.

let’s be beastly

stat- impressive strength week last week

Thoughts Leader, drcrusher & darkwave- hammering

m38, 13 days to 2:29 at Indy Monumental

m- 10

t- 10/5

w- 9.5/4.5

*th- 2 x mile, 3 miles, 2 x mile. 1’ recovery jog between miles, 3’ before and after 3 mile. (5:24, 5:24, 16:36, 5:26, 5:27). still pretty tired

f- 9/4.5

*s- progression- 34k (just over 21 miles) first 10k@6:33, next 10k@6:18, then 6:00 and 5:38 pace for the last 4k. rolling terrain. feeling better. overall pace 6:13

su- 9.5/4.5

103

13 weeks averaging just over 106 miles/week while trying to stay up with the intensity and specificity. It’s been a good build. Let’s see what unfolds. My taper is short and hard, so the volume will probably only drop around 15% this week.

Thanks for getting it started, JQ!

Male, 51 yo, 5’7”, 129 lbs

Goals: Jan 19 - Standard Chartered Marathon Taipei - sub 3:10

Upcoming Races: Nov 3 - HM

A bit of an unplanned cutback this week. After two weeks of 55-65 miles, life spiraled a little midweek and I missed two days in a row. It’s OK, but only one Q workout this week.

Sunday Q: E + 18k M + E

I’m pretty sure that was the fastest M pace workout at marathon effort I’ve ever done.

I’ve been “running by feel,” but today I went out with some plans. I planned to pick it up to vdot 50 marathon pace (where I should be) and see how I felt. At pace, running into the wind, I felt like I was at marathon effort. Breathing seemed right. I was wearing the HRM, but I did NOT look at my HR; I did not want the knowledge of that number affect my “perception of effort.” Turned back after 9k and began running with the wind and quickly dropped way under vdot 50 marathon pace, from vdot 51-53. Ultimately, I averaged around vdot 51, and at a lower HR than I have ever run a marathon. Because vdot 50 would be 3:10, a PR for me, I’m in good shape, especially cuz I’m still 12 weeks or so out from my goal race.

Maybe this was a week where

less was more.

Not much to report here. Ran a couple times through lots of nerve pain (moves around back and glute/hamstring...foot)

Biked some and lifted 3x.

Guess it’s time to just stick w the elliptical and some light biking and hope that it unkinks before Indy. Not ready to call it quits yet it has me a bit down. This is the 3rd time in 3 years that sciatic pain has nailed me. Once doing medium base miles , last summer jogging 8:30 mile the week after a race. And this time after a big week. Seems to not be much rhyme or reason

"Workouts to Improve Lactate Clearing Rates" -Steve Magness

M - 10mi

T - 9mi AM including 3x(1600m-90s rest-300m-4min rest) (5:11, 0:53) (5:12, 0:52) (5:12, 0:49)

Just enough headwind in the home straight to be annoying. Full disclosure: got an extra 15s rest before the last 300 because some guy walking laps stopped and asked me if I was "a marathoner or just a runner."

8mi PM with Sub 6:00. Monuments, an island, rainbows, hammering (for an easy run, for me). Good stuff.

W - 8mi.

Same route as the day before but alone, in the dark, about 1.5min/mi slower than yesterday. Less magical. (sunrise on the National Mall was pretty ok I guess)

T - Off

Travel fatigue, poor sleep fatigue, garbage diet fatigue, dull foot ache not getting better for about a week, didn't want to dig a hole today.

F - 12mi including 7mi continuous alternations of brisk/float 1000m/600m. 5:34/6:03 average paces for a 7mi overall average of 5:45/mi.

Strava sanctioned 10k PR for a guy that never races 10k

S - 7.2mi

S - 6mi

Total - 60.2mi

Didn't plan the day off, and lower mileage weekend than I wanted due to time crunches, but not bad at this point in the game.

And then there were 2.

“Disappointed at [Berlin] Marathon - Should I go back to back?” — Outsiderunner

M39, 6-6, 187

2 weeks until back-to-back glory at Indy?

M 8

T 6

W 8.5 / 4

Th 10.5 w 2 x 4800T w 3 min jog (5:45, 5:44, 5:39 — 5:42, 5:44, 5:26)

F 8

S 17 easy

S 9.5 trails / pm ?

71.7 total

Not much quality this week. I usually do 3x3T at this point before a marathon but given the quick turnaround didn’t want to push it. Was also coming off my fishing trip which always leaves me a bit sluggish. On the home front I’m slowly replenishing marital capital. Odds of going back to back looking good.

Male, 41, 5’11”, low 170s

PRs: 16:43 (2019) 1:17:24 (2019), 2:47:00 (2018)

Goal race: California International Marathon (12/8/19)

Goal time: 2:42:00-2:46:00, will narrow down the target as the race gets closer

“Somebody’s closer.” Happy Gilmore, Happy Gilmore

Starting 7 weeks out from CIM

M - 6 miles. Including 5 x :20 strides.

T - 13.1 miles. Including 3 x 3 miles off 3:30 recovery jogs. 5:49/average. 1:25:36 (6:32/mile) overall for the 13.1 miles.

W - 6 miles

Th - 12 miles. Pacing Mrs. Stone.

F - 5.9 miles. Including 5 x :20 strides.

Sa - 12 miles. Including 8 mile tempo. 6:06/average. Felt like 30km race pace.

Su - 20 miles very easy. Hilly. 754 feet elevation gain. With Mrs. Stone. (2:58:39).

Weekly Total: 75 miles

Year to Date: 1,697 miles

Surprised myself with both workouts this week. Was expecting 5:55-6:00s as a great target on Tuesday but the 5:49s just clicked off. For Saturday’s tempo, I purposely wanted to experience what 2:40:00 marathon pace felt like, and right now it feels like about 30km race pace. I am excited to see what I can do on six more weeks of training. Hope everyone else had a great week.

Progression of Workouts this Cycle

Week of 9/16 (52 miles)

*12 x 400m off 1:00 walk recoveries. Roads. :77/average.

*5 mile MP tempo. 6:24/average.

*15 mile progression. 75%-->100% MP. 8:25-->6:19/mile.

Week of 9/23 (62 miles)

*8 x .5 mile off 1:30 walk/jog recoveries. Roads. 2:48/average.

*6 mile MP tempo. 6:21/average.

*16 miles. Including 8 mile continuous alternating tempo as 4 x (1.5 miles MP, .25 mile fast, .25 mile easy). 9:31/1:18/1:55 averages. 6:22/average overall for the 8 miles.

Week of 9/30 (70 miles)

*6 x 1 mile off 2:00 jog recoveries. 5:42/average.

*17 miles. Including 4 miles (6:24)/3 miles (6:19)/2 miles (6:06)/1.1 mile (5:52) off 1 mile moderate recoveries (6:55). 1:23:52 overall for the middle 13.1 miles (6:24/average).

Week of 10/7 (80 miles)

*2 x 2 miles, 1 x 1 mile off 2:30 recovery jogs. 5:50/average. (Was scheduled for 4 x 2 miles but felt flat and cut it short.)

*14 miles. Including 10 mile continuous alternating tempo as 10 x (.5 mile at 5:53, .5 mile at 6:24). 6:09/average overall for the middle 10 miles.

Week of 10/14 (60 miles)

*7 mile progression. MP—>HMP. 6:19–>5:48/mile. 6:03/average overall for the 7 miles.

*19 miles. Including 17 miles steady @ 6:34/average.

Week of 10/21 (75 miles)

*3 x 3 miles off 3:30 jog recoveries. 5:49/average. 1:25:36 (6:32/mile) overall for the 13.1 miles.

*8 mile tempo. 6:06/average. Felt like 30km race pace.

*20 miles very easy, hilly. 754 feet elevation gain. (2:58:39).

Mrs. Stone’s week:

Female, 44, 5’6”

PRs: 21:20 (2017, 2019), 1:36:43 (2019), 3:31:40 (2019)

Goal race: California International Marathon (12/8/19)

Goal time: sub 3:25:00 (7:49 pace)

Starting 7 weeks out from CIM

M - 6 miles

T - 10.5 miles

W - 4 miles

Th - 12 miles. Including 3 x 3 miles off 4:00 recovery jogs. 7:25/average. 1:35:16 (7:56/mile) for the 12 miles.

F - Rest

Sa - 10.7 miles

Su - 20 miles. Hilly. 754 feet elevation gain. 8:56/average. Last two miles 8:01, 8:20. Strong run in rainy, windy conditions.

Weekly Total: 63+ miles

Year to Date: 2,086 miles

Female, 45, 5'4", 105

PRs 5:25/18:51/38:56/1:02:28/1:24:08/2:57:42

Goal races: Indianapolis Monumental Marathon, Houston Half-Marathon 2020

Goal times: 18:30 for 5K, 1:23:xx for half, sub-2:55 for full

50 miles, 4 hours 30 minutes of pool-running, and 1000 yards of swimming

M: 70 minutes pool-running.

T: 90 minutes of pool-running and upper body weights/core.

W: 6 miles very easy to yoga (9:02), yoga, and 6 miles home (8:30) plus drills and strides

Th: 12 miles, including a track workout of 3200, 1600 in 12:59 (6:34/6:25) and 6:10, with 4:38 recovery. Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming.

F: 1 hour 50 minutes of pool-running, followed by upperbody weights/core and DIY yoga.

Sa: 16 miles progressive - split as first 5 miles averaging 9:00 pace; next 5 miles averaging 7:35 pace; last 6 miles averaging 6:43 pace. Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming.

Su: 10 miles very easy (8:58), plus cheering at Marine Corps Marathon.

Focus was on recovering from last Sunday's Columbus Half, plus my last long run. I intentionally did two days in the pool after the half to be careful, since my form had really fallen apart during the latter part of that race.

My legs were still tired by the end of the week (Thursday's 3200m ended up being significantly slower than the pace I held at the half on Sunday, but sure felt like 10 mile race effort), but they are starting to come around, and should be fresh two weeks from now for Indy.

Ran down to cheer at the Marine Corps Marathon this morning. Lousy weather for them - mid 60s, raining heavily at times, standing water many places, gusting winds. It wasn't too bad for an easy run, but was fairly miserable to stand in, and couldn't have been much fun to race in.

slo - Another fine week on top of a 106-mile avg. Wow. You are ready....for a beastly tomahawk slam.

JQ - The same goes for you, my friend—a Dominque-style 360 tomahawk slam. I must admit that I envy you running NYC...my hone town. To me, it is the greatest of all races. Enjoy every moment, and make sure that you ROCK First Ave. Soak it all in.

Great work here, folks.

I could have gotten to 77 or 78 miles for this week, but I decided to stand pat with what I have—72 in six days...and call it a week. Workout went well yesterday (17 with 12 of MP tempo), but I felt the piriformis (starting in the seventh mile of the tempo block), and so I will rest the leg today. The sciatic seems to be in the mix there, too. This morning, though, the whole area (hamstring/buttock) feels pretty good. So, rest for and stretching for today.

Will post my week when I get back from church...

Picking back on a couple of things from last week's thread. My post regarding THOUGHTSLEADER's training was more or less meant suggestion that he has some untapped potential that he can capitalize on if he is motivated to do so. I think there is a good chance he could get accepted Boston 2021 with his current time, but there is always that question mark. I was honestly surprised on the cutoff time for 2020.

Coach Jeff - Just to echo what the others have said, you'll definitely want to give Vaporflys a trial run before racing in them. I did one easy run on the treadmill and then a workout in them. After the treadmill run I was close to returning them. I found the sole to be too narrow through the mid foot. My arch would hang off the sole and that point of transition from supporting my arch by the sole and then being supported by the upper was a bit uncomfortable and would probably be a disaster for me in a marathon. If you look inside my VF you will see "Everrun". I removed the sockliners from the VF and replaced it with the sockliner from one of my old pairs of Kinvaras. After the modification I did the workout and determined that the comfort problem was solved.

Pathetic as my training is right now, I'll start posting again.

Male 51 5'8" 137lbs

PRs

Marathon 2:57:06 Dec 2018

5k 19:00 June 2018

Upcoming Races

Hopefully a Turkey Trot

April 2020 Boston

Oct. 2020 Chicago ? (waiting to see what's going on with this injury. Deadline Dec. 3rd)

Mon. 45min Bike trainer w/ 2x5min harder efforts

Tues. 50min Bike trainer w 25min moderate effort

Wed. 50min Bike trainer

Thurs. Off

Fri. Off

Sat. 31mi Bike ~18mph avg.

Sun. 10min warmup on trainer + Core and Hip Mobility

Total 0mi running

A month or two ago I must have overdone something with one of my speed workouts, but it took me a couple of weeks to figure out that something was up as things got worse. It is either some sort of quad strain or I got something going on with my hip. I really suspect it is something with my quad. I have determined that it requires a complete break from running to heal. The trick for me is to not be too impatient with returning to running. I am optimistic that I will be able to resume running this week. I did have an unfortunate event on Saturday that has me mildly concerned. While climbing a tree I put myself in a position where I may have experienced a mild femoroacetabular impingement. Later on Saturday I was having some mild hip pain associated that that. It feels much better today so I remain optimistic that this did not create a new injury that requires additional rehab. Now off to haul some tree limbs to the curb so that the town can come put them into the chipper...

M36, 6'1" 160

Semi-Applicable PRs: 1:38 HM (November 2018), 19:45 5K (July 2019 time trial)

Short-Term Goals: 1:35 HM (11/23), 19:30 5K (11/28)

M: 4.3 easy

Tu: 5.2 hilly

W: 4 very easy

Th: 5.1 easy

F: 5 hilly

Sa: 3.2 easy

Su: 13.3 very easy

Total: 40.1 miles

Had work travel Monday-Friday which wore me down a bit so no workouts this week. On the bright side, third straight week of no days off and 40 miles. Plan for next week is to bump up the mileage a bit and get two quality sessions in. Thanks everyone for the input so far and for letting me hang around here!

Thought I would join in this thread. Somewhat new to distance running and building up to my first Marathon in Feb. Just started a Daniel's 2Q plan today (Sunday) but have been running 50-60 miles the last 2 months in an unstructured manner.

M34/6'2"/185ish

PRs: 6'9" HJ (college)/22'2" LJ (college)/49.5 400 (high school)/1:58 800 (high school)/17:32 5k (last week)/1:27:08 HM (today during long run measured by strava)

Goal Race: Hyannis Marathon 2/23/2020

Goal Time: Sub-3 I think but will revise in January.

Monday (10/21): 8E. Avg. 7:48.

Tuesday (10/22): 12E (mostly). Avg. 7:27. Sprinkled in a few 6:5x miles towards the end. Trying to get used to throttling to M effort.

Wednesday (10/23): 6E. Avg. 7:39. Felt tired but eased into it and felt better by the end of the run.

Thursday (10/24): 8E. Avg. 7:24. Ran 1.5 or so miles at M pace at the end. Just trying to get a feel for it.

Friday (10/25): 8E. Avg. 7:20 Avg. Last 2 miles picked it up to something resembling M pace.

Saturday (10/26): 8E. Avg. 8:09. Ran with friend.

--Start of 17 week Marathon buildup--

Sunday (10/27): 3E+6M+1E+6M. Overall avg. 6:51. The M pace miles ended up 6:52/6:47/6:37/6:36/6:29/6:24 for the first block and 6:41/6:31/6:30/6:26/6:19/6:05 for the second block. The E miles were 8:08/7:41/7:33 to warm up and 7:58 between the two M portions. I took a gel during the that 7:58 E mile as well. Overall felt great. Need to re-evaluate my 54 VDOT level given it was a guesstimate. Moreover, set a HM PR of 1:27:08 in the middle of the workout which was kind of cool. Legs feel very solid right now so don't think I over-exerted or anything but I guess I'll find out on the next Q workout.

Total: 66 Miles. Weekly mileage PR!

Welcome, highhoppingworm, and congrats on the weekly volume PR.

My week...

M: 12.5 at 7:34 overall...felt good

T: 10.5 at 7:32 overall...felt good

W: 11.5 total at 6:35 overall...3/6/2.5 tempo...felt very good, especially once I got rolling in the second tempo mile...6:09.4, 5:59.6, 5:55.1, 5:53.1, 5:50.5, 5:44.5

T: 8.5 at 7:29 overall...nice ease and control

F: 12.13 at 7:28 overall...nice ease and control

Sat.: 17.13 at 6:27.7 overall...butt got sore and tight in the seventh tempo mile, but I felt STRONG otherwise...2/12/3 tempo...6:15.0, 6:13.2, 6:09.1, 6:07.7, 6:08.0, 6:05.9, 6:06.6, 6:07.4, 6:08.6, 6:04.9, 6:03.4, 5:59.7...cool down (7:07, 7:00, 6:51) felt like nothing

Sun.: off/recovery

72 miles

The switch has been flipped...

angryjohnny wrote:

“Disappointed at [Berlin] Marathon - Should I go back to back?” — Outsiderunner

Of course!! Both you AND Napper!!

highhoppingworm wrote: The M pace miles ended up 6:52/6:47/6:37/6:36/6:29/6:24 for the first block and 6:41/6:31/6:30/6:26/6:19/6:05 for the second block.

Welcome!

I'm curious - how are you choosing/pacing your marathon pace miles?

I'm asking because that is a ginormous variation in paces within a single run - from 6:52 all the way down to 6:05. Most people, when targeting marathon pace, end up with each mile within about +/- 5 seconds of a certain time. Are you running on a very hilly course?

Not a ton to report for me either, gave my calf the whole week to chill out on the running front and put in some mileage on the old race bike, all on the indoor trainer with power meter etc. Felt like old times again...when I originally picked up triathlon after an injury ridden cross-country career. I will say that I love training with power. Coming out of engineering school, the numbers make me happy and I love being able to quantify exactly what I did in training on a given day. The downside...the numbers will never lie, and it can be like running on a track all the time. Sometimes that can be depressing!

Monday/Wednesday - 90mins easy @ Z1/Z2 with 6x30sec max effort (>200% FTP)

Tuesday - 90mins with 5x10mins @ sweet spot/tempo (80-90%) on 2mins of rest

Thursday - 90mins with 6x2min @ VO2 max (110-120%) on 2mins of rest, right into 12x30/30 also at VO2 max

Saturday - 90mins with 6x2min big gear/low cadence "climbing" intervals (100-105%) on 2-4mins of rest (not meant to be a super tough workout).

Sunday - 120mins easy with 6x30sec max effort and some fartlek type stuff

Did 15min of core work a few times, and spent 45min doing strength stuff on Monday and Friday (Friday was also exclusively strength/core stuff - needed a rest day from aerobic stuff).

Total of ~12h of training this week. Cycling has always been my strength, so it was a pretty enjoyable week for me.

I have no excuse other than lack of experience and discipline. I tend to gradually speed up during my runs so most efforts even on easy days tend to be progressions. I also think I am using an overly pessimistic VDOT value. I think focusing on an M pace of 6:40 and trying to be more consistent is going to be my goal for the next two weeks.

Any tricks you can offer around being more metronomic would be appreciated.