Great SI Profile here: https://www.si.com/olympics/2019/08/07/dalilah-muhammad-400-meter-hurdles-world-record-lawrence-johnson-analysis
Expect most of us distance fans will get geeked up over her workouts:
"Muhammad spent the fall of 2018 focusing on strength and foundational work during long and arduous training days. Among the early workouts that stuck out were multiple 12 x 400-meter sessions with 60 seconds rest. Each lap had to be run between 70 and 72 seconds. She would nail the times and come back the next day to run a mile time trial anywhere from 5:07 to 5:17. For 800-meter work, she could comfortably run 2:06 and she believed in a race, she’d dip under two minutes."
Dalilah Muhammad believes she could break 2:00 in the 800; ran 12x400 avg. 71 with minute rest
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Oops didn't realize this was old, Must've missed it. Fail
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Impressive, most impressive.
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You know what's easier than a 12x400 workout? Entering a local early season meet and running an 800.
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At least my junior year in high school...I pretty much would've rather done anything than an all-out 800. That being said was more likely to do 8x400 than 12 reps at that point.
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team Unruly Bush wrote:
You know what's easier than a 12x400 workout? Entering a local early season meet and running an 800.
Four-hundred metres & 400mH athletes do better in 400m repeat workouts than 400m & 400mH athletes are able to race 800m. Post an 8K or five mile tempo run by D Mohammed in sub-30 minutes before I believe D Mohammed is near elite 800m fitness. -
I certainly am still impressed by the workout, but more so the volume than the pace. I don't think 70s suggest sub 2, although workouts aside I still think she could break 2. And I think she's more attractive than McLaughlin.
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THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:
For 800-meter work, she could comfortably run 2:06 and she believed in a race, she’d dip under two minutes."
Calling BS on this. There is nothing comfortable about a 2:06 800m except for maybe a dozen women worldwide, and those dozen specialize in the 800 -
Bib #1 wrote:
Calling BS on this. There is nothing comfortable about a 2:06 800m except for maybe a dozen women worldwide, and those dozen specialize in the 800
I disagree. I was a crappy high school runner and a 2:06 would've felt like a breeze on it's own, while sub 2 would've been all out. 7 seconds is huge. -
not how it works !!! wrote:
Post an 8K or five mile tempo run by D Mohammed in sub-30 minutes before I believe D Mohammed is near elite 800m fitness.
You really think speed based 800 runners like Korir or Raevyn Rogers are doing hard 5 mile tempo runs? -
team Unruly Bush wrote:
I certainly am still impressed by the workout, but more so the volume than the pace. I don't think 70s suggest sub 2, although workouts aside I still think she could break 2. And I think she's more attractive than McLaughlin.
Pretty classic mile pace workout I think. Like in high school/college I'd do the same at 65-68 and try to run that pace for 4 laps. Granted, she comes more from the speed side, so I'm not sure a 4:45 mile is what she'd yield. Probably more like 4:50-4:55. Still mighty impressive for a great 400/400h runner.
For the person scoffing at her 2:06 800s being comfortable...I don't see why that's necessarily false. She is clearly a very strong runner. She puts in some overdistance training, and is not all speed. My lifetime PR is 1:59, and even in high school when I wasn't particularly strong a 2:06 is something that by late April (season went to June) I could pump out in a dual meet comfortably whereas a 1:59-2:00 was hard as hell. And she's super-fit. While I'm not sure she could break 2, if she can run 2:06 controlled with her speed and conditioning why not a 2:01 clocking? -
team Unruly Bush wrote:
not how it works !!! wrote:
Post an 8K or five mile tempo run by D Mohammed in sub-30 minutes before I believe D Mohammed is near elite 800m fitness.
You really think speed based 800 runners like Korir or Raevyn Rogers are doing hard 5 mile tempo runs?
Why not? Call them and ask them. Running sub-30 minute five mile tempo run is far easier than racing sub-2 800m. -
not how it works !!! wrote:
team Unruly Bush wrote:
You know what's easier than a 12x400 workout? Entering a local early season meet and running an 800.
Four-hundred metres & 400mH athletes do better in 400m repeat workouts than 400m & 400mH athletes are able to race 800m. Post an 8K or five mile tempo run by D Mohammed in sub-30 minutes before I believe D Mohammed is near elite 800m fitness.
Why is it so hard to believe a women who can run 52 sec in the IH could break 2:00 in a 800? There is a pretty significant overlap in the physiological and mental requirements of the events. I agree with the statement that the 400mH athletes would do better in the workouts because as anyone knows the 800 race is easy to learn but very difficult to master but she is not saying she could go out an run 1:55. I would fully expect that being dragged along in a time trial like 800 she would run 1:58 - 1:59. Now, championship racing is a whole 'nother animal. Nobody is elbowing you or cutting you off during the hurdles. I expect she would have a lot less success in a crowded 800 or one where she couldn't dictate the pace. But geez people, she is a legit world class 400m runner who obviously has some serious strength - running a good 800 is not that much of a stretch. -
Can any of you run 12x400 with 1:00 rest faster than your mile pace?
If she’s a sub 4:50 miler she can definitely break 2:00 with her 50-flat open 400 speed. I bet she could run 2:06 in the 800m hurdles if that was an actual race. -
not how how it works !!! wrote:
team Unruly Bush wrote:
not how it works !!! wrote:
Post an 8K or five mile tempo run by D Mohammed in sub-30 minutes before I believe D Mohammed is near elite 800m fitness.
You really think speed based 800 runners like Korir or Raevyn Rogers are doing hard 5 mile tempo runs?
Why not? Call them and ask them. Running sub-30 minute five mile tempo run is far easier than racing sub-2 800m.
Uhm...5M in 30' is certainly a weaker performance, yes.
Whether its easier to not depends on who you are. For most athletes, it probably is. For athletes who are more speed based (read: massive anaerobic cap) breaking 2 in 800 is significantly easier. -
Of course she can run under 2 flat in an 800. She's the world record holder in the 400 hurdles with 52.16. She can run a flat 400 in 50 flat. She could run a smooth 58 flat and grind through a 61.9.
There are other 400 hurdle runners that can run respectable 800's. Joey Woody back in the day ran 47.9 for 400 hurdles and 1:48 for indoor 800, and had splits of 1:47. Take Warholm with his 46.9 400 hurdles, he could probably run 1:45 or at least 1:46 in an outdoor 800 when he's at that fitness. A 2 flat for women is similar to 1:45/1:46 for men. -
Curious Joge wrote:
Can any of you run 12x400 with 1:00 rest faster than your mile pace?
If she’s a sub 4:50 miler she can definitely break 2:00 with her 50-flat open 400 speed. I bet she could run 2:06 in the 800m hurdles if that was an actual race.
Yes, especially if those 1' recoveries are walked. I could do 6×800 w/2' walk a little faster than mile pace as well.
With an honest jog around 8'pace it would get close, but I could still manage a little faster. Maybe a 1-2s a lap (probably closer to 1).
With a walk....4-5s a lap or so. Comes down to your characteristics as a runner...aerobic guys would absolutely not be able to do that. If you have a massive anaerobic cap, those fast workouts can be blown out of the water with any decent amount of rest. -
of course she could.
However, the difference between being a world ranked 800 person, and one who wins major meets is the rounds.
She may or may not be able to run rounds. Certainly a 400 h race is a strength race like the 800, and she has the speed to be anywhere in the pack.
But can she do it 2 twice a day and again tomorrow? -
So far, D. Mohammed has not raced an 800m anywhere near sub-2. Sub-55 400m is usually what is needed for a sub-2 800m. D. Mohammed checks off that box. Twelve x 400m, ave. 71 seconds proves nothing to me. I know more 400m athletes with sub-53 400m who were unable to race sub-2 800m than 400m athletes with sub-53 400m who were able to race sub-2 800m. In my observation, 400m athletes with a sub-53 400m who are also able to run 8K or 5 miles sub-30 on tempo runs are the sub-2 800m runners. I am not stating D. Mohammed cannot race sub-2 800m. Get back to me when she's running sub-30 8K or 5 miles.
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not how it works !!! wrote:
So far, D. Mohammed has not raced an 800m anywhere near sub-2. Sub-55 400m is usually what is needed for a sub-2 800m. D. Mohammed checks off that box. Twelve x 400m, ave. 71 seconds proves nothing to me. I know more 400m athletes with sub-53 400m who were unable to race sub-2 800m than 400m athletes with sub-53 400m who were able to race sub-2 800m. In my observation, 400m athletes with a sub-53 400m who are also able to run 8K or 5 miles sub-30 on tempo runs are the sub-2 800m runners. I am not stating D. Mohammed cannot race sub-2 800m. Get back to me when she's running sub-30 8K or 5 miles.
Sub-53 ok that’s great, how about sub-50?
