Has it already started?
Will it confer an undue advantage to people who can afford the technology over those who can’t? Should Bernie institute a free 4% program for everyone?
Discus
Has it already started?
Will it confer an undue advantage to people who can afford the technology over those who can’t? Should Bernie institute a free 4% program for everyone?
Discus
If they even do help, a reasonable person would conclude that they only help about two minutes at the slow pace required for a BQ. Doing better training will more than make up for two minutes in a marathon at that pace.
If people suddenly running a PR because of vaporfly's used to run a marathon in their training shoes like Nike Pegasus and now have the vaporfly 4%, it's not because it's the vaporfly 4%, it's because they're finally running a marathon in a lighter shoe. They would run faster in any flat, especially something like the Adidas Adios 4.
Just get out and run more.
Many reasonable people have concluded that 4% are a lot faster than that
I ran decently far under the standard this year, and am hoping last year already captured a lot of the effects with versions of the shoes being available and widespread. If the trend remains of BQ - :45-1:20 additional from the year before I should be OK. I guess otherwise I'll be kicking myself for not spending the money on the shoes or doing a gimmicky downhill marathon.
Come on now wrote:
If they even do help, a reasonable person would conclude that they only help about two minutes at the slow pace required for a BQ. Doing better training will more than make up for two minutes in a marathon at that pace.
If people suddenly running a PR because of vaporfly's used to run a marathon in their training shoes like Nike Pegasus and now have the vaporfly 4%, it's not because it's the vaporfly 4%, it's because they're finally running a marathon in a lighter shoe. They would run faster in any flat, especially something like the Adidas Adios 4.
Just get out and run more.
Math is not your strong point.
"Johnny runs a marathon in 180 minutes. His new shoes allow him to improve that time by 4%. How many minutes faster will Johnny run in his new shoes?
Take your time. Show your work.
YMMV wrote:
Come on now wrote:
If they even do help, a reasonable person would conclude that they only help about two minutes at the slow pace required for a BQ. Doing better training will more than make up for two minutes in a marathon at that pace.
If people suddenly running a PR because of vaporfly's used to run a marathon in their training shoes like Nike Pegasus and now have the vaporfly 4%, it's not because it's the vaporfly 4%, it's because they're finally running a marathon in a lighter shoe. They would run faster in any flat, especially something like the Adidas Adios 4.
Just get out and run more.
Math is not your strong point.
"Johnny runs a marathon in 180 minutes. His new shoes allow him to improve that time by 4%. How many minutes faster will Johnny run in his new shoes?
Take your time. Show your work.
The consensus is that there is not a 4% time reduction with these shoes. More like 1% to 2%. Review your assumptions.
Bib #1 wrote:
Will it confer an undue advantage to people who can afford the technology over those who can’t?
Anyone who runs marathons can afford Vaporflys
Hardloper wrote:
Bib #1 wrote:
Will it confer an undue advantage to people who can afford the technology over those who can’t?
Anyone who runs marathons can afford Vaporflys
Right? You can afford outrageous registration fees, multiple pairs of trainers, hotels in big cities, flights, shorts, socks, shirts/singlets, watch, all the other gear, but you can't afford $250 for a pair of marathon racing flats? Give me a break
I'm also curios about if they're having an impact in triathlon. Check out an Ironman event. Over 90% of the competitors seem to be wearing Vaporflys.
General Tso wrote:
I'm also curios about if they're having an impact in triathlon. Check out an Ironman event. Over 90% of the competitors seem to be wearing Vaporflys.
I actually expected more of them in the 3-hour pace group I found myself in this weekend. Was maybe 40-50% people with Nike shoes that had the look. Then again this was not a big-city, expensive marathon. More low-key, probably more local runners than anything.
I think the argument that you spend so much on other crap, why can't you spend 250 on a pair of racing shoes is valid.
In my case, I spent 50 on some Adizero Bostons that were on sale (I raced in and did workouts and a couple long runs in), 140 for 2 pairs of trainers to rotate and that will last me almost 2 cycles for 60 bucks less than just the shoes. Felt kinda cool to have shoes covered for under 200 bucks.
But will I regret if I miss out by a minute or less? I suppose, yeah. Nice to have a pre-crazy shoes PR tho.
Bib #1 wrote:
Has it already started?
Will it confer an undue advantage to people who can afford the technology over those who can’t? Should Bernie institute a free 4% program for everyone?
Discus
Yes, it's already started. It won't confer any undue advantage because the people who go to Boston can already afford the $205 entry fee, huge travel expenses, and a couple days off work.
Boston already caters to us master's high-rollers who can drop some cash within Boston city limits, and our numbers are going to explode. A five-minute improvement is still less than 3%, but it turns a whole bunch of non-BQ times into BQ times. Take this year's time standards and drop them all by 5 minutes. 2:55 is the new BQ.
Bernie should seize control of Nike's means of production and order them to produce Vaporflies for everyone.
my 2c wrote:
Bib #1 wrote:
Has it already started?
Will it confer an undue advantage to people who can afford the technology over those who can’t? Should Bernie institute a free 4% program for everyone?
Discus
Yes, it's already started. It won't confer any undue advantage because the people who go to Boston can already afford the $205 entry fee, huge travel expenses, and a couple days off work.
Boston already caters to us master's high-rollers who can drop some cash within Boston city limits, and our numbers are going to explode. A five-minute improvement is still less than 3%, but it turns a whole bunch of non-BQ times into BQ times. Take this year's time standards and drop them all by 5 minutes. 2:55 is the new BQ.
Bernie should seize control of Nike's means of production and order them to produce Vaporflies for everyone.
I'm triggered.
I ran a 1:20 HM in boost
I ran a 1:20 HM in 4%
THEY DON’t make you faster.
Maybe your poor training is making you slower
Simple, by 2022 the BQs will be shaved by another 5 minutes in all AGs;)
Bib #1 wrote:
Has it already started?
Will it confer an undue advantage to people who can afford the technology over those who can’t? Should Bernie institute a free 4% program for everyone?
Discus
No. They won't. Fewer people applied for entry into the 2020 Boston Marathon (27,288) than did for the 2019 marathon (30,458). Even so, the BAA accepted more people this year (24,127) than last year (23,074).
I think people will put the same effort in regardless of the shoe they're wearing. So if they're wearing vapoflys, they'll just put slightly less effort in. We're not talking about elites trying to set records here, but rather folks putting the least amount of effort to hit that standard.
BQ data says wrote:
Bib #1 wrote:
Has it already started?
Will it confer an undue advantage to people who can afford the technology over those who can’t? Should Bernie institute a free 4% program for everyone?
Discus
No. They won't. Fewer people applied for entry into the 2020 Boston Marathon (27,288) than did for the 2019 marathon (30,458). Even so, the BAA accepted more people this year (24,127) than last year (23,074).
So in 2019, you had to be 4:52 faster than the standard of 3:05. In 2020 the standard moved but you now had to be 6:39 faster than the old standard and 1:39 faster than the new one. I guess, where to next? Was the increased overall speed already impacted by the shoes to a large degree in 2020? Is there another big jump coming?
math time wrote:
YMMV wrote:
Math is not your strong point.
"Johnny runs a marathon in 180 minutes. His new shoes allow him to improve that time by 4%. How many minutes faster will Johnny run in his new shoes?
Take your time. Show your work.
The consensus is that there is not a 4% time reduction with these shoes. More like 1% to 2%. Review your assumptions.
Ok, cool. So for the average 3 hour marathoner, they are now running 2:57:18 for the marathon.
Hayness personified wrote:
I ran a 1:20 HM in boost
I ran a 1:20 HM in 4%
THEY DON’t make you faster.
Care to share your training leading up to each of those performances? Were they on the same course? Weather? Etc.