Enough already! It’s not the shoes! Maybe drugs, but not shoes!

Pointless to argue with LRC about this. They don't want to understand that the shoes are Nikes cash cow now and pure marketing.

Nike is going to make 100's of millions of dollars with the 4%, NEXT% and whatever new shoe Kipchoge wore during his sub 2 run.

Hobby joggers DO run faster with them, but it's either

1) the shoes are lighter than what they previously had, for example a Pegasus and/or

2) placebo-effect, they run harder because they think the shoes made them faster so run at 94% effort instead of 93%.

IF it really were the shoes, Emma Bates would have ran like 2:22 and turn into the best American marathoner over night, that's just not gonna happen. Her shoes were just as good as the 4%, many elites have proven this time and time again but it's hard to notice them as Nike is just sponsoring EVERY good runner these days so they almost have 100% representation in the top fields in major marathons.

At this stage I honestly cannot believe that there's anyone left still sprouting this denier tripe. Just amazing!

The reason Nike runners are running faster is they are allowed to use drugs indiscriminately. And then Nike says ‘see, the shoes are amaaaaziiinnng’.

Not drugs either. People are so naïve believing that drugs can make you faster.

Yeah - definitely a placebo effect. Riley and Mock are probably just trying to get Nike sponsorship.

"Jake Riley and Jerrell Mock, the top two American finishers in Chicago today, are both unsponsored, and hence could choose to race in any shoe. Both chose the Nike Vaporflys.

"It feels like running on trampolines," Riley said."

Ggggg wrote:

1. If it were the shoes all runners without exception who were them would significantly improve, and this isn’t the case.

13/25 of the all-time top 25 men have set their PRs in 2018 or 2019.

10/25 of the all-time top 25 women have set their PRs in 2018 or 2019.

Both WRs were set in 2018 or 2019.

Either an undetectable super-drug came out or it’s the shoes.

He didn't wear the vaporflys for this, he used a sterioded version of them that nobody else uses. You can't compare that to his other performances because he was wearing the 4%. The shoes were a huge factor in him breaking 2. No doubt

You're wrong about the London Marathon. Kipchoge was just jogging behind the few pacers they hired to pace everybody. He could've run much faster, but he was saving himself for a great performance in September or October.

You're wrong about the shoes. So many national and world records have been smashed since the induction of the carbon plates. It's not just Kipchoge who benefited from it, just do some research on google.

the spring coefficient in the shoes is most likely just coming closer to matching the natural human period between landing and take-off. At some point it will be perfectly matched and shoes will no longer be able to get better.

The marathon world has totally changed wrote:

Ggggg wrote:

1. If it were the shoes all runners without exception who were them would significantly improve, and this isn’t the case.

13/25 of the all-time top 25 men have set their PRs in 2018 or 2019.

10/25 of the all-time top 25 women have set their PRs in 2018 or 2019.

Both WRs were set in 2018 or 2019.

Either an undetectable super-drug came out or it’s the shoes.

Do you remember when Kipchoge ran 2:04 to win Berlin in 2015 without insoles?

https://www.letsrun.com/news/2015/09/eliud-kipchoge-wins-bmw-berlin-marathon-with-shoe-insoles-falling-out-photo-gallery/

Ggggg wrote:

Lately all kinds of people try to tell us the Kipchoge’s shoes shouldn’t be legal because they propel him like a trampoline. So here are some fact:

1. If it were the shoes all runners without exception who were them would significantly improve, and this isn’t the case.

2. Kipchoge ran London 16 without these shoes and clocked 2:03:05. Then he ran London 19 WITH the shoes in similar conditions and clocked 2:02:38. That’s not even 0.5%! And I can give many more examples like this.

I even have a feeling that he could have gone faster with “normal” shoes and not these moon boots. So it isn’t shoes! Might be EPO, but not shoes.

The shoes is plainly marketing gimmick to make amateur runners spend 250-300$ on shoes

I don't know if you're trolling or not but you do understand that people sometimes have bad performances right?

It’s gotta be the shoes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkY7W6kCRY4

I've not run in the Vaporflies but I have done a tempo run in Carbox Xs. Compared to my normal racing flats, it definitely felt like my body more reasily rolled over my stride and steps were comfier and didn't fatigue my legs as quickly. My feeling is that the whatever-% increase comes from the fact that they are light and at the same time widely distribute your weight on impact so that more muscle groups absorb it. Normal flats are light but because they're narrow, flexible and flat you land on your toes and a concentrated region of calf muscles absorb the impact (more so with spikes). The heel drop on these things might also force a shorter, more efficient stride, and force you to run with a forward lean.

The marathon world has totally changed wrote:

Ggggg wrote:

1. If it were the shoes all runners without exception who were them would significantly improve, and this isn’t the case.

13/25 of the all-time top 25 men have set their PRs in 2018 or 2019.

10/25 of the all-time top 25 women have set their PRs in 2018 or 2019.

Both WRs were set in 2018 or 2019.

Either an undetectable super-drug came out or it’s the shoes.

Times already got better before, nothing special. There are many great times run by athletes without a nike contract, but nike sponsors 95% of african elite runners nowadays, so even "experts" like the co-founders of this website or Jon Gault get tricked into thinking the shoe actually is more than a marketing stunt.

They are an absolute cancer on the sport.

And it's not just at the elite level. I'm seeing so many club guys in my area leap in from the 1:17:xx / 1:16xx to the 1:12:xx / 1:11:xx in Half which pretty much fits in with my own scientific experimentation that they're worth ~ 25 secs a mile at around that pace.

Total joke.

Not Just Ruining Things At The Elite Level wrote:

They are an absolute cancer on the sport.

And it's not just at the elite level. I'm seeing so many club guys in my area leap in from the 1:17:xx / 1:16xx to the 1:12:xx / 1:11:xx in Half which pretty much fits in with my own scientific experimentation that they're worth ~ 25 secs a mile at around that pace.

Total joke.

Well, if I'd spend $250+ on running shoes I'd start training my butt off, too. Not that people at the local Turkey Trot mistake me as a hobby jogger with expensive shoes.

Not Just Ruining Things At The Elite Level wrote:

They are an absolute cancer on the sport.

And it's not just at the elite level. I'm seeing so many club guys in my area leap in from the 1:17:xx / 1:16xx to the 1:12:xx / 1:11:xx in Half which pretty much fits in with my own scientific experimentation that they're worth ~ 25 secs a mile at around that pace.

Total joke.

So why don’t sprinters start using them as well??

It’s the shoes and not some gimmick!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzIIoL8tPxc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7c2KUEm2GW8