Is Jakob doubling 1500/5000?
Is Jakob doubling 1500/5000?
Lance-o wrote:
lrc creampuffs & betas east africa super runnings wrote:
Stop bombarding us with your overly to-the-point logic. We do not accept rational thought here. I feel threatened so go away before I get the mods on you.
Sure, great logic. Lance Armstrong was really poor.
Whoa! You got 'em!! Such a strong point!
Kenneth M wrote:
Drug cheats out please wrote:
Hahaha, yes, even Coevett and rekrunner dont believe that!
- What's the #1 incentive for doping? Money.
- Where does T&F money have the greatest impact on quality of life?
- Where is the local competition fiercest?
- Where is it most corruption (from officials and agents)?
How does this affect the risk/reward balance for an athlete?
If you're a norwegian you'll have a relatively good life whether or not you're competitive at the elite level. The things you lose when you're busted for doping will far outweigh any possible benefit from winning while doped. That doesn't mean people don't dope, cause there are certainly enough of 'less intelligent' individuals who will.
The case for east african countries is very different. Winning is a way out of poverty for yourself, your family and maybe even the extended family / village. The payoff is enormous in relative terms. Combine that with the level of competition at the local level and the corruption in every facet of society, and your odds of succeeding suddenly become very unfavorable. The circumstances guarantee that someone will cheat, and this person may steal your prize money, opportunities and consequently your chance at a much improved future. How do you overcome this problem? Either you're born with better genes, or you level the playing field with dope.
So... all those Americans who get busted? All those Europeans who got busted? All those people living above the poverty line are.......... clean? Wrongly accused?
Or.......
Could there be.... more than one reason people dope? ?
To see a 19 year old run this fast with a “likely doping” brother.... yeah.... that’s not sketchy at all.
They are all in meds. They all want to win.
Macdaddy: The reason Henrik is on the "likely dooing"-list, is because the russian group Fancy Bears "leaked" a list in order to try to get people forget about Russia's doping problem...
Macdaddy wrote:
Kenneth M wrote:
- What's the #1 incentive for doping? Money.
- Where does T&F money have the greatest impact on quality of life?
- Where is the local competition fiercest?
- Where is it most corruption (from officials and agents)?
How does this affect the risk/reward balance for an athlete?
If you're a norwegian you'll have a relatively good life whether or not you're competitive at the elite level. The things you lose when you're busted for doping will far outweigh any possible benefit from winning while doped. That doesn't mean people don't dope, cause there are certainly enough of 'less intelligent' individuals who will.
The case for east african countries is very different. Winning is a way out of poverty for yourself, your family and maybe even the extended family / village. The payoff is enormous in relative terms. Combine that with the level of competition at the local level and the corruption in every facet of society, and your odds of succeeding suddenly become very unfavorable. The circumstances guarantee that someone will cheat, and this person may steal your prize money, opportunities and consequently your chance at a much improved future. How do you overcome this problem? Either you're born with better genes, or you level the playing field with dope.
So... all those Americans who get busted? All those Europeans who got busted? All those people living above the poverty line are.......... clean? Wrongly accused?
Or.......
Could there be.... more than one reason people dope? ?
To see a 19 year old run this fast with a “likely doping” brother.... yeah.... that’s not sketchy at all.
Lol, yeah. So easy to get away from ooc testing in Norway. I mean there's barely any electricity there. Like, there's also no reliable national doping control agency. Does one even exist in such a remote country? They got runners being caught left and right anyway. They must all be doping. I mean the euro means so much to them. Isn't the average salary there 1500 dollars equivalent per year? Idiot!
So doping only takes place where athletes are being caught? Kinda rules out the old Eastern Bloc. And only poor people dope because they want to win more than rich people.
Macdaddy wrote:
So... all those Americans who get busted? All those Europeans who got busted? All those people living above the poverty line are.......... clean? Wrongly accused?
Or.......
Could there be.... more than one reason people dope? ?
To see a 19 year old run this fast with a “likely doping” brother.... yeah.... that’s not sketchy at all.
Why do you selectively omit parts of my original post, specifically the part where it says "That doesn't mean people don't dope, cause there are certainly enough of 'less intelligent' individuals who will."?
Those who dope in that category fall into two groups:
1) Those who cannot accept their own shortcomings and convince themselves that 'everyone does it' so why shouldn't I?
2) Those who believe they're smart and able to do it undetected.
And why do you pretend that 'Europeans' is a homogenous group wrt socioeconomic status and culture? Countries like Norway, Switzerland and Iceland have little in common with Moldova, Ukraine and Armenia.
The conviction that 'all elites dope' is not realistic, not cynical, only ridiculous, lazy and dumb. That remains true even if the IAAF and the national federations have no incentives for busting any athlete.
Creaky Bones wrote:
Is Jakob doubling 1500/5000?
Yes, as well as Filip.
Oh !!!! Here we go again, people overrating this inge boy.?....??
Armstronglivs wrote:
So doping only takes place where athletes are being caught? Kinda rules out the old Eastern Bloc. And only poor people dope because they want to win more than rich people.
uhhh, the old eastern bloc has busts left and right.
armstrongisdead wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
So doping only takes place where athletes are being caught? Kinda rules out the old Eastern Bloc. And only poor people dope because they want to win more than rich people.
uhhh, the old eastern bloc has busts left and right.
No, there weren't. Their "records"still stand after 30 or more years.
lancelot yeah man. Dat got em stumped yo wrote:
Lance-o wrote:
Sure, great logic. Lance Armstrong was really poor.
Whoa! You got 'em!! Such a strong point!
Lance Armstrong was/is a sociopath. He would have doped to win a three-legged race at the county fair. It is a fair point that people from an impoverished background have more to gain/less to lose by doping - it makes it easier to rationalize in that case (not saying it's justifiable, just understandable that people with a gray moral compass would take one path in one set of circumstances, and another path in others).
Professional sport doesn't have a gray moral compass. The question is, how much do you want to win?
zeterst wrote:
Kenneth M wrote:
- What's the #1 incentive for doping? Money.
- Where does T&F money have the greatest impact on quality of life?
- Where is the local competition fiercest?
- Where is it most corruption (from officials and agents)?
How does this affect the risk/reward balance for an athlete?
If you're a norwegian you'll have a relatively good life whether or not you're competitive at the elite level. The things you lose when you're busted for doping will far outweigh any possible benefit from winning while doped. That doesn't mean people don't dope, cause there are certainly enough of 'less intelligent' individuals who will.
The case for east african countries is very different. Winning is a way out of poverty for yourself, your family and maybe even the extended family / village. The payoff is enormous in relative terms. Combine that with the level of competition at the local level and the corruption in every facet of society, and your odds of succeeding suddenly become very unfavorable. The circumstances guarantee that someone will cheat, and this person may steal your prize money, opportunities and consequently your chance at a much improved future. How do you overcome this problem? Either you're born with better genes, or you level the playing field with dope.
exactly - europeans don't dope
And if they don't need the money from competition, why would they? ?
Drug cheats out please wrote:
lamplight wrote:
Imagine thinking the Ingebrigtsens are clean LOL
Hahaha, yes, even Coevett and rekrunner dont believe that!
"believe". It's like we are discussing religion or mythology.
rekrunner wrote:
Drug cheats out please wrote:
Hahaha, yes, even Coevett and rekrunner dont believe that!
"believe". It's like we are discussing religion or mythology.
Then you are obviously not familiar with assessing evidence that is testimony in a court case. In many instances , the question will be whether the jury "believes" a witness. That has nothing to do with religion or mythology but credibility. You believe certain research because you find it credible, not because you performed it yourself. So others may believe differently from you - on the basis of different argument or evidence - although you do find that hard to understand.
Armstronglivs wrote:
armstrongisdead wrote:
uhhh, the old eastern bloc has busts left and right.
No, there weren't. Their "records"still stand after 30 or more years.
You claimed before that nobody doped in the amateur era because of a different ethos. Do you think Herb Elliott, Roger Bannister, Peter Snell 'didn't want to win'?
The former Soviet Bloc had the most advanced doping program in the history of sport, particularly the GDR, in an era when testing wasn't so good. Despite that, Soviet Bloc runners were very selective as to when and where they ran. The likes of Kirov and Straub never ran in the Bislett Dream Mile, for example. I presume planting potatoes or something back home in Dresden.
And of course it's been confirmed beyond doubt that the GDR had a ruthless doping program that wrecked the lives of tens of thousands of young people.
rekrunner wrote:
Drug cheats out please wrote:
Hahaha, yes, even Coevett and rekrunner dont believe that!
"believe". It's like we are discussing religion or mythology.
I've never said that I don't believe the Ingebrigtsens are clean, just the opposite. Blatant troll lies (to the troll that Rekrunner replied to).
The difference between myself and Rekrunner is I stick to evidence. Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence, and claims like 'everybody dopes' or 'EPO doesn't work', are found wanting there.
Loppas wrote:
Macdaddy: The reason Henrik is on the "likely dooing"-list, is because the russian group Fancy Bears "leaked" a list in order to try to get people forget about Russia's doping problem...
Better yet - why is Henrik listed as "likely doping" on that list? Is someone out to get him? Lol. It's funny to see someone like him on that list because isn't he supposed to be one of the good guys?