1:47 800m training

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Maybe people hesitate to post here because it is difficult or even ridiculous to give advice to a very strong runner.

You run low mileage and you have it in the legs (1:47). I think the plan is good, but I would think about this:

1. All year some 400m speedwork, especially sprints over 150m or 250m at 400m pace with full recovery. You seem to prefer short sprints (60m).

2. Instead of 30- 40 min continous tempo runs (somehow static stride running) consider 4-5 x 5min at hard pace /1-2min rest or a hybrid workout (20min tempo followed by some 5k pace intervalls and long strides at the end

3. Plyos before a workout to get more pop in the legs.

Maybe you have seen I`m an expert on low mileage training?If you like to hire me as your coach just contact me Looks to be an easy match to get you sub 1:47 . Welcome!

-COACH J.S -

Thanks for your answer, could you give me an example that how would You set up my scedule for 1:47?

I'm not the one to give you advice, but do you do any 800m-paced workouts?

the 300s are around 46-43 with tha last one usually around 40 in flats, so they are a bit faster than 1500m pace but slower than 800, sometimes after the long intervals i d do 2x200m around 27-6

during summer i do really specific workouts like 3x300 in 40 with 40s rest, or 4x200 in 26 with 30sec rest

during last month the 30sec hill reps were around 29-28 sec 200 pace with last one around 24 ish

re to suggestion to longer sprints, i used to do last year bi weekly one or two time 20sec hills all out

i dont do plyos ( injury) and weight only running

i think my 1500 is very week 3.52, so thats the reason for the longer tempos (30-40min) and longer long repeats

i used to do 2x4x6 now i plan moving it to 8x8 with jog rests

Haven't done it myself, but came close (1:48.2). I had teammates in college doing the same training with the 800m group and our best guy ran 1:46 high. Had one other run 1:47 high as well. Here's generally what we did:

Cross Country (August - November):

- 55-65miles/week

- 70-90minute long run most weeks (sometimes running fast in the second half)

- Tuesdays: Tempo or Fartlek (sometimes with intervals after). For example, this was usually a 20minute tempo run (5:20-5:30/mile) followed by 4-6x1min @ 1500m effort. Done off the track on trail.

- Fridays: Hills or Intervals. Every other week we would do hill repeats. Sometimes 10-15x200m hill. Sometimes 6-10x 500m hill. Every other week we would do intervals. Early in the season 8x1000m with a minute rest (off the track) starting at 3'20. Later in the year maybe 5x1000m with 2'30 rest starting at 3'00 and cut down.

- The the other days were easy runs, Monday would usually involve strides or sprints after the easy runs. 4-6x150m buildups. Or 8x flying 60m accelerations.

Indoor: (Dec - March)

- 50-60miles/week

- 70-80minute long run most weeks. if we weren't racing that weekend we may run hard.

- Tuesdays: Alternate Tempo or Fartlek with Long Intervals. Some weeks this was a tempo, others this was long reps like 6x1000 on the track @ 3:07 (2mins rest). Always 200s or 300s after. Usually 1000m worth of 200s or 300s cutting down to 800m pace.

- Fridays: Hills or Short Intervals. Every other week we would do hill repeats. When we weren't doing hills, we would do short intervals. Usually high volume and short rest. Like 4x(4x200) [34-32-30-28) with 1min rest between and 400jog between sets.

- Monday would always have sprints after the easy runs.

Race weeks we would workout Tues and Thursdays and Race Saturday. Tuesday usually tempo or long interval, thursday usually an easier, shorter workout (like 8x200m cut from 1500m pace to 800m pace). And then the races we usually did 1000m. mile, or 600m. Did not race many 800m indoors.

Just one or two easy "mini" peaking sessions before conference and/or the national meet. Maybe 4x300 at 800m pace. Not the killer 800m sessions yet.

Outdoor: (March-June)

- 40-55miles/week

- 70-75minute long run most weeks.

- Rest of the training was pretty similar to indoors. We would go Tuesday/Thursday/Saturday for hard sessions since we were racing most weeks. Tuesday usually medium intervals -- either 1000s at tempo pace with short rest or 600/800/1000s at 3000-5000m pace. Thursday usually FAST -- 5x200m in 25-26. Or 300/250/200/150/100. Saturday was either race or an 800m or 1500 specific workout. Stuff like 7x400 faster than 1500m pace, or 2x400, 2x300, 2x200

wow , thanks very insightful

long reps seems very doable, i ve read in the sub 1.50 thread that to run under 1.50 you should able to run 5x800 2.20 cutting down to 2.05 or faster with 400jog in 2min, noo way that i could do that, a friend of mine ran 1.46 and he couldn t do either

keep these post coming, i think i could be a really good thread

Well,,,,,shortly the same basic linear schedule that all my successful runners use. Working with the 3 most important factors for the result, maxVO2 pace, LT-pace and aerobic Power pace + special sprint and repetitions for 800m runner. I have coached a couple of 1:46-1:47 800 Runners so far..... Welcome!

- The Magic Wizard -

Great input here, inspiring read.

pipedre, your training volume consisted of 30 mpw, sometimes more, right? You plan to do 50 mpw during your base phase (but only then). The splendid and detailed post above describes a very solid training in the range of 40 - 65 miles, average well above 50 miles with lots of aerobic stuff.

You know what this means. I am sure you have the talent to increase your mileage but this will influence your time schedule and your recovery.

I am very curious about the question, if it's possible to create a weekly schedule of 35-40mpw max. Let's start with the question, if a 800m runner needs a weekly long run of >60mins or if pretty hard cruise intervals/fartlek style workouts can replace the long run for the 800m athlete.

pipedre wrote:

i think my 1500 is very week 3.52...

Wouldn't say your 1500 is your weak spot. It's stronger than your 49.5 400m.

I think with 49.5 is possible to run about 1.46 low

Canova said that you can ran 90 to95 percent your 400m pr over the 800 if you aerobicly fit.

Kip Ortenburger ran 1.47 high without being able to rub sub 50 w rolling start, but he could run 3.39 (former LR poster)

I ran last year 50 km /week during base counting everything, than 30-35 in the summer

Last months i did the 3 workouts i listed, two of them were 12-13 miles with wu and cooldown, totalling 74km s in 6days (i always take a full day off)

Sure it's possible. I just don't think your 1500m performance is weak comparably.

How have your times developed the last few years/months?

HS junior : 51.3-400 1.55 -800 /4.10 1500 off 2 month off sprint training (pbly 5miles per week)

senior 1.56 (overtrainined myself, started runing longruns with sprint training, and hammered them every day

Collage 1st year : 1.53- 3.52 (40-50 often 60 miles a week)

2nd year 1.54-3.55 (overtraining 80-90 miles)

3rd year 8.30- 3.57 training by myself 70ish miles, with 1 long interval workout , one tempo and easy runs

4th year: 1.50 kinda messy season trainyng with 2 coaches than alone in the summer, 49.5 -400 (30ish miles per week whole year

5th year 1.49 high, wasnt motiveeated,/stress reaction in the fall and winter, started training in february alone with the plan i described in the first post

yes my running was kinda messy, experianced with higher mileage, but in the stupid way hamerring every run, without basicly easy days

pipedre wrote:

HS junior : 51.3-400 1.55 -800 /4.10 1500 off 2 month off sprint training (pbly 5miles per week)

senior 1.56 (overtrainined myself, started runing longruns with sprint training, and hammered them every day

Collage 1st year : 1.53- 3.52 (40-50 often 60 miles a week)

2nd year 1.54-3.55 (overtraining 80-90 miles)

3rd year 8.30- 3.57 training by myself 70ish miles, with 1 long interval workout , one tempo and easy runs

4th year: 1.50 kinda messy season trainyng with 2 coaches than alone in the summer, 49.5 -400 (30ish miles per week whole year

5th year 1.49 high, wasnt motiveeated,/stress reaction in the fall and winter, started training in february alone with the plan i described in the first post

yes my running was kinda messy, experianced with higher mileage, but in the stupid way hamerring every run, without basicly easy days

From my point of view this may also indicate that you are better off low mileage (probably 35, perhaps 40 max). Think about it. Perhaps you are a lucky person and you have already found your sweet spot. Just continue with your work.

I've never run sub 1:50, but I ran 1:50 several times during my 20s and 30s. If I could go back in time I would put more emphasis on the extreme elements of the event. I avoided repeats over 1k because I hated them, and as far as working on speed, I pretty much stayed with 200 to 300m race pace workouts (8x200 @ rp w/ 200jog rest) or (5x300 @ rp w/ 300 jog rest).

I should've run more longer mile pace type stuff combined with 400m type training on the speed days.

I don't see how you're doing the wrong thing, except with your speed work. It seems like you it's all very short in duration. In the 800 you don't need top end speed or acceleration (60m sprints and short hills) as much as you need to be able to hold moderately high end speed for a long period of time. I don't think you're really training yourself to hold that speed long enough. The 600m repeats you're doing are ok, but they aren't getting you ready for holding onto 50-51sec 400m pace for as long as possible. You need to go through 400 in 51 and still feel fairly relaxed.

I'd suggest something like this.

Tuesday: 5x300 all under 40 sec with 4-5min rest. Or maybe 600, 400, 300, 200 with the 600 a second or two above race pace, the 400 at race pace, then the 300 and 200 under race pace......probably 5-7mins rest.

Sat: 6x1k at sub 3:00 with a couple mins rest.

Keep everything else similar. Drop most of the short hill work, unless you want to add a few on after the Sat 1k's.

You have all required speed and acceleration already. You just need to be able to hold your current 800 race pace further into the race. And maybe be more comfortable going through the first half of the race just a tick faster.

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Another thing to consider is that maybe your training is just fine. Looking back on my early days, I was holding myself back with a poor attitude. I wen into every race with the idea that I wasn't as good as the other guys. I felt like they were somehow more talented than I was. It sounds stupid, but I'm just being completely honest. I remember lining up against Olympians and thinking I was just lucky to be in the same race. I had resigned to just going through the motions instead of getting my mind to a place where I could be competitive and fully push myself. I knew how to kill it in workouts, but I was weak during the races. No one would have guessed from watching me though -- I appeared as confident as the next guy. But I was focused entirely on the wrong thing.

I'm actually much better as a masters runner. I have a healthy attitude about racing, and I'm not really worried about everyone else in the race. I just try to win. It's too bad I couldn't have that attitude years ago.

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Finally, the thing about not having time to run doubles. I'm not buying it. Get up early, then run the real workout after work. I've done it myself with a full-time job (60 hours per week), plus having a family (and I'm not a deadbeat dad....I cook dinner nightly and split pretty much everything 50-50 with my wife).

If you think adding easy mile sin the morning would help you then that's what you need to do.

Yes i plan to do this type of long recovery speed endurance stuff this season, but only about a month before races, i did similar a while ago and i was decent of this (will try this 600-400-300-200 !)

I also plan to do some longer speed stuff on Monday, like suggested 4x 150 meters

Yes i could do doubles if i really wanted, but i never ran well off them, i always feel that shorter morning runs take away my energy from the more important sessions where i can get better ( i think i wont be better from 3 times 30minutes jog)

I really like the idea to chose 3 or so days to improve and make them big ( a long interval session with decent 3 mile up and down could be 13 miles) and take recovery days super easy i usually run 30-40 mins in 8-9 mile pace with walking breaks.

I also think you should stick with your program. Your times have improved, so it obviously works.

Maybe a heart rate monitor can help you keep your easy runs easy and avoid injury?

So, you spend 6 hours a week or more running by yourself? Don't you want to run with a group?

i dont tend to run them too fast, 8 min pace is the fastest.

I ve got a running buddy who trains with me usually