Has anyone experienced injuries from running shoes that were TOO cushioned? At my wits end

Go back to your regular shoes and see if that helps.

Minimalistic works better for me. Some evidence says that with cushioned shoes you will push harder against the ground when running

I hate cushioned and or high stack shoes. However, in your case you stated that you training was tanking and you were dealing with the some kind of injury prior to buying the shoes. Sounds like a familiar story that makes shoe companies rich and runners frustrated. The desperation probably created training errors. When you place new demands on your feet desperately swapping out shoe types it's not too much different from going to barefoot running. You just bought yourself the necessity of a transition time without thinking about it. On top of the fact that your training was already going downhill, it's not a recipe for success when finding out why you are breaking down, perhaps going back to start over is probably what you need.

Start lifting weights

Yeah the 4%s are apparently too cushy for my mechanics. Instead of being easier on my legs they seem to wreak havoc on my soleus/gastroc in a way that the regular Fly does not. Long and mid-d spikes along with the Streak 6/LT do not have this effect. Those muscle groups are expectedly taxed and sore after hard efforts but they don’t cause lasting problems the way the 4% does. Nothing gives me shin problems, but as I understand those injuries the calf is often the culprit.

(For reference: I rotate Kinvaras, Fresh Foams and Pegasus Turbos for specific easy/recovery runs. Vomero is my daily shoe. I always use spikes or flats for hard workouts— track reps, hills, threshold and moderate length progression stuff— accounting for about 20-25% of my weekly volume, as a ballpark.)

I have had for a long time the idea that cushioning impedes the development of muscular strength in the lower calf, shin, ankle area, with consequent increase in injury propensity.

I have been injury free since going to light minimal cuahioning shoes.

Your running though that nagging injury for two months probably caused the intense shin splints. Fix whatever was causing that nagging injury.

I think there is something to the theory that Hokas or other extra cushion shoes make you push harder into the ground and can cause injuries as a result. I switched to Hokas thinking that they would help my 45+ year old legs recover better. But I ended up getting patellar tendinitis in both knees.

I've had problems with some of the Hokas. Bondi more than the Clifton. Both felt great in the store, but after a couple of months, I started to get slight knee pain and even back pain. Took another 2 months to realize it was the Hokas.

I've had zero problems to date with both the 4% or Zoom Flys.

seikosha wrote:

I've had problems with some of the Hokas. Bondi more than the Clifton. Both felt great in the store, but after a couple of months, I started to get slight knee pain and even back pain. Took another 2 months to realize it was the Hokas.

I've had zero problems to date with both the 4% or Zoom Flys.

What is your shoe rotation? Or are you training in the Vapor-/Fly exclusively?

What drop were you mostly running in before and what drop are the new shoes? I've been dealing with calf issues after going from running in only lower drop (2mm-6mm) and introducing some 8mm shoes into my rotation. I did quite a bit of running in some 8mm shoes and when I would run in lower drop shoes I started having calf pain that turned into a full blown injury.

I meant to add that I tested my theory of lower drop causing me issues and not the cushion by running in some Hoka's and even with all that cushion still wound up with serious pain in my calf muscles. Now when I run in 8-10mm drop I have no calf issues.

Cushy shoes make those muscles work TOO hard in a stabilizing way which is unnecessary stimulus.

It's like running on BOSU balls.

Switch to firmer shoes and the muscles only work as hard as they need to.

Many muscular injuries have a similar origin. People think it's because the muscles are too weak but it's only because they are being overworked. Eliminate the reason a muscle is overworked and the problem goes away.

I bought the Hoka Clifton 5 because I liked the Bondi 5 so much, but the Cliftons gave me instant shin splint pain, like in the first few steps even.

When you buy a new kind of running shoe, you need to think of it as a big gamble that might not pay off. If you think of it like 'I'm stuck with these shoes for 400 miles', you can get yourself hurt.

Don't get yourself hurt. You might be fine in some slightly less squishy Hoka model. And sometimes a shoe with an even taller stack height will be less squishy than the Cliftons.

doot doot wrote:

seikosha wrote:

I've had problems with some of the Hokas. Bondi more than the Clifton. Both felt great in the store, but after a couple of months, I started to get slight knee pain and even back pain. Took another 2 months to realize it was the Hokas.

I've had zero problems to date with both the 4% or Zoom Flys.

What is your shoe rotation? Or are you training in the Vapor-/Fly exclusively?

I train in Epic Reacts, Zoom Flys and Brooks Ghosts. Race in Vaporflys. Run 50 - 60 miles a week year round.

Yes

Precious Roy wrote:

I think there is something to the theory that Hokas or other extra cushion shoes make you push harder into the ground and can cause injuries as a result. I switched to Hokas thinking that they would help my 45+ year old legs recover better. But I ended up getting patellar tendinitis in both knees.

They causes tendons to lose their elasticity over time. The more cushion you add the less tendons work. The less your tendons work the more likely you'll get injured running. They are great for cyclists, rowers, swimmers, etc. that aren't concerned with running fast and just want a good aerobic workout without getting beat up or spending 2.5x as much time in the saddle, on the erg or in the pool. Runners should use them sparingly. To be sure though, they do have their place in the shoe rotation, but it shouldn't be too often.

I have worn out 3 pair of stinsons and 1 Clifton. never had any problems.

Add me to the list of those for whom cushioned shoes don't work. I struggle to stay injury free in even moderately cushioned shoes like the Brooks Ghost or Mizuno Wave Rider. It's a matter of stability - my ankles are weak anyways due to chronic problems (yes, I do a ton of wobble board work) and any cushioning just amplifies that instability.

For me, running in firm, minimally cushioned shoes with a wide toe box (to give my big toe space to work and stabilize my foot) is what works for me.

I think it's also worth noting that cushioning isn't scaled in shoes - my women's size 7s have the same amount of cushioning as a men's 11. And It makes sense that I, being much smaller, will experience that cushioning much differently than a larger person, since I'm hitting the ground with much less force.