Am I the only one that still gives credit to dopers achievements?

Hi, Galen!

This attitude is killing the sport. Why would you give ANY credit to a drug cheat? They are stealing prize money, medals, sponsorships, and attention from clean athletes. Doping is a form of theft and fraud, and people need to start seeing it that way. Would you praise a bank robber for their “magnificent achievement” of stealing millions? Of course not! So why should you admire a dirty athlete? OP, this is seriously the most disgusting doping apologist post I have read on LRC.

And here we have the "John Gotti defence". Dishonesty isn't wrong if it gets you over the line first.

+1, why hate Armstrong when all of his competitors were doping anyway?

LoneStarXC wrote:

This attitude is killing the sport. Why would you give ANY credit to a drug cheat? They are stealing prize money, medals, sponsorships, and attention from clean athletes. Doping is a form of theft and fraud, and people need to start seeing it that way. Would you praise a bank robber for their “magnificent achievement” of stealing millions? Of course not! So why should you admire a dirty athlete? OP, this is seriously the most disgusting doping apologist post I have read on LRC.

My moral compass must be way off because I probably would praise a particularly well thought and executed heist.

I imagine if anybody told me they are genuinely the best at what they do. I am impressed pretty much regardless of the activity. Obvious exceptions apply here.

For example - El Chapo. Despicable person and scum of the earth. But some credit has to be given to his ability for climbing a very competitive high-risk organisation. You can’t argue it’s not an achievement?!

Every time I point out that its a fact that ElG, Komen, Geb, Lagat, Ngyeny, BK, etc were all maxed on EPO, everyone here gets very upset. So, no, you're not the only one that gives dopers credit.

I couldn't care less about all that drug BS, and wish the powers that be would just said .......the hell with it. So tired of all this talk of drugs, it totally sucks.

What's really funny is this...."all those sprinters are using, they are all dirty".....ok, so what's the problem? Sounds pretty fair to me.

Where is that....I don't drink, don't smoke pot, would never cheat at anything ever.......at? Are there people like that?

Crooked cops, corrupt judges, now look at politics and big business.

Let this athletes do what they want, lets see that 9.45 100m, that 30 foot long jump.

Your "moral compass isn't way off"; you simply don't have one.

we like to pretend that our heroes are clean!

Devil Dog wrote:

Every time I point out that its a fact that ElG, Komen, Geb, Lagat, Ngyeny, BK, etc were all maxed on EPO, everyone here gets very upset. So, no, you're not the only one that gives dopers credit.

LoneStarXC wrote:

This attitude is killing the sport. Why would you give ANY credit to a drug cheat? They are stealing prize money, medals, sponsorships, and attention from clean athletes. Doping is a form of theft and fraud, and people need to start seeing it that way. Would you praise a bank robber for their “magnificent achievement” of stealing millions? Of course not! So why should you admire a dirty athlete? OP, this is seriously the most disgusting doping apologist post I have read on LRC.

Great post. Another important point is, that if many elites are doping (like in cycling), many hobby athletes think it's legitimate - the thought of "everyone is doing it anyway, so I'm gonna do it too" is prevalent in recreational athletes. This doesn't just also make recreational races unfair, but also puts these humans at huge health risks, since they are ordering the meds online or from their local running club without medical supervision like pro athletes do.

No one is questioning that doped athletes aren't working hard or aren't talented, but we NEED to take every doping case seriously and there should be severe punishments for anyone involved - athlete, coaches, doctors, etc.

Devil Dog wrote:

Every time I point out that its a fact that ElG, Komen, Geb, Lagat, Ngyeny, BK, etc were all maxed on EPO, everyone here gets very upset. So, no, you're not the only one that gives dopers credit.

Because they never tested positive and admitted doping? We can't just say that EVERY single exceptional performance is doped. Every sport has athletes, that have exceptional talent and skills -

Phelps and Ledecky in swimming

Federer, Nadal, Djokovic in tennis

Jordan, Lebron in basketball

Messi, Ronaldo in soccer

Muhammad Ali, Klitschko in boxing

So many sports have these athletes, that despite competing on the highest level STILL are a slight level above everyone else. But in running, it's impossible?

The runners you mentioned had incredible talent and trained super hard. Runners with that talent are born maybe a handful in a century. They are the genetic outliers of the outliers of the outliers. A 3:35 1500m runner is already a genetic outlier. But these athletes are even 2-3 levels above that talent level.

LoneStarXC wrote:

This attitude is killing the sport. Why would you give ANY credit to a drug cheat? They are stealing prize money, medals, sponsorships, and attention from clean athletes. Doping is a form of theft and fraud, and people need to start seeing it that way. Would you praise a bank robber for their “magnificent achievement” of stealing millions? Of course not! So why should you admire a dirty athlete? OP, this is seriously the most disgusting doping apologist post I have read on LRC.

+1

Well said!

Now That's Telling It Like It Is wrote:

LoneStarXC wrote:

This attitude is killing the sport. Why would you give ANY credit to a drug cheat? They are stealing prize money, medals, sponsorships, and attention from clean athletes. Doping is a form of theft and fraud, and people need to start seeing it that way. Would you praise a bank robber for their “magnificent achievement” of stealing millions? Of course not! So why should you admire a dirty athlete? OP, this is seriously the most disgusting doping apologist post I have read on LRC.

+1

Well said!

I finished 6th in a low key race that Kiprop won in 2009. The difference between him and me was 0.5 seconds. Prize money went 5 deep. I was a young athlete eating baked beans for dinner every night to try and make ends meet, that $300 would have gone a long way for me.

Would Kiprop have been 0.5 seconds slower that day had he not doped? Maybe. Would I be a better runner today if that $300 had gone towards paying for flights to another race? Maybe. I guess we'll never know who that money rightly belongs to.

not that broke wrote:

Now That's Telling It Like It Is wrote:

+1

Well said!

I finished 6th in a low key race that Kiprop won in 2009. The difference between him and me was 0.5 seconds. Prize money went 5 deep. I was a young athlete eating baked beans for dinner every night to try and make ends meet, that $300 would have gone a long way for me.

Would Kiprop have been 0.5 seconds slower that day had he not doped? Maybe. Would I be a better runner today if that $300 had gone towards paying for flights to another race? Maybe. I guess we'll never know who that money rightly belongs to.

Maybe you should have wised up and got on the sauce bro?

Then you could have got off the baked beans and made some $$$ and recognition.

Then again, not all is lost, at least you still have your principles. Lol.

I can’t in good conscious agree with anything LoneStarXC posts, so I agree with the OP.

LoneStarXC wrote:

This attitude is killing the sport. Why would you give ANY credit to a drug cheat? They are stealing prize money, medals, sponsorships, and attention from clean athletes. Doping is a form of theft and fraud, and people need to start seeing it that way. Would you praise a bank robber for their “magnificent achievement” of stealing millions? Of course not! So why should you admire a dirty athlete? OP, this is seriously the most disgusting doping apologist post I have read on LRC.

How is it killing the sport? If anything track distance racing has been less exciting since they started really cracking down on doping. I miss the days when 20 guys would sub 13 in one race multiple times a summer. It really was exciting. I don't find your moral argument to be that compelling either. Doping is cheating only in an ancillary sense. It's radically different than, say, cutting the course (or robbing a bank). It's merely helping you to train harder. I see it as a fairly minor moral transgression, especially when everybody else is doing it too.

I wish track would be more like football - perform some anti-doping but mostly turn a blind eye towards it. I think the sport would be much more fun and you wouldn't have the stress and disappointment of incredible athletes getting banned all the time.

You're definitely not the only one. It seems that a lot of the top administrators at USATF, the IAAF, IOC, etc. agree with you.

You are not.

I've researched sport, and specifically doping policy, since 2004 (I know that some LRC posters have read my articles in peer-reviewed journals),

In my experience, the more one knows about sport, the more one realizes that the particular sport and the social and political contexts play as important a role as anti-doping policy when it comes to the prevalence of doping. It has nothing to do with so-called "bad apples."

Individuals might also be into history: the more one knows about the history of WADA, the more likely one would be to conclude that WADA's establishment had far more to do with preserving and promoting an image of sport that benefits organizations like the IOC. The more one knows about the history of 'wars on drugs' generally, the more likely one would be to conclude, "Wow... these 'war on drugs' approaches don't work!"

The anti-doping policies that have been in place for the last few decades are ineffective and pretty much unenforceable, which should raise red flags for any follower of sport, let alone policy analysts. Worst of all, it's more than a little unfair to suggest to athletes that they have a "right" to participate in clean sport, which has never existed and which current policies will not lead to. Athletes are let down.

Are you out of your mind or just trolling? ? Why don't you tell that to Alysia Montaño who was cheated out of the bronze at the London Olympics by 2 Russian dopers! She estimates she lost a few hundred thousand dollars in endorsements from winning an Olympic bronze. She trains her butt off for the biggest stage in T&F only to get beat by 2 notorious Russian cheaters who have absolutely NO respect for the rules!

And the third place Russian doper, Ekaterina Poistogova, who admitted in the ARD-recordings to have used Anavar and EPO in her preparation for London, is elevated to silver! ? This is so ridiculous because she was convicted of doping per the ARD-recordings, banned for two years - but allowed to keep the bronze which was later elevated to the vacant silver.

Where the hell is Alysia Montaño's rights in this? She gets screwed out of the bronze because of this ridiculous CAS decision to let Poistogova keep her medal. Total BS!

DOPING HURTS CLEAN ATHLETES!