Unreal. Laura Muir runs 3:58 off of 2:11 first 800!! 57 last lap!! Jenny S. please move to the steeple now

rojo wrote:

You watch the race and you realize Jenny is screwed at the 1500 this year. Probably next as well. 57!! I mean maybe she could pick up a bronze if others try to go with Muir/Hassan but don't you want to try to run for gold?

Has Hassan reversed course on her stated plans for a 5,000m/10,000m double?

Why would the steeple be any easier for Jenny to medal in? Her PB would place her fourth on the USA 2019 list for goodness sake. Granted, she may be able to run a bit better now, but 2009 Jenny was no joke and 2019 Jenny is a little past her prime.

The 1500m final in Doha will be a completely different race. Jenny is a smart athlete and will find a way to medal, I can guarantee you that.

rojo wrote:

You watch the race and you realize Jenny is screwed at the 1500 this year. Probably next as well. 57!! I mean maybe she could pick up a bronze if others try to go with Muir/Hassan but don't you want to try to run for gold?

Muir running really fast times 2 months out from worlds does not concern me and probably not Jenny! Muir has always done this and the when the global champs comes around she is fizzled. How many times have y’all said Jenny Simpson is unlikely to medal and the comes to a global champs and medals. Stop counting her out especially when worlds are in October!! Fast performances 2 months away from worlds does not automatically equate to a medal at the world champs.

Now performances a few weeks leading up to worlds maybe me somewhat concerning but we haven’t even seen her consistently race yet. Slow your roll!

I definitely agree... rojo you are being a bit dramatic! I was on the bandwagon along with letsrun and many others in 2017 when I thought she didn't have a chance. Not only did she run down everyone but Kipyegon to snag silver but def looked like she had a bit more in the tank. I also agree world champ races are never run like this. Can she run this exact type of race on the 3rd round at the world championships? I highly doubt it and I won't be convinced till proven wrong. Like Jenny s said a few years back the rounds at the world champs are a great equalizer when it comes to competing against everyone in the final! no one is fully fresh (you have 2, 1500 meter rounds in your legs) and that's why times have almost never been sub 4 or even close to sub 4 at almost any outdoor global champs.

What I find a bit concerning is that Muir in an interview before the race said she was in PB shape. Being in PB shape this amount of time out from worlds is still not even indicative of a guaranteed medal. Do you really think someone can hold peak fitness from now all the way till October. Not only poor tactics have ruined Muir's medal chances but also bad coaching. Idc who you are, You need your peak fitness to be aimed at the world champs where it counts the most. Especially in a deep event like the 1500.

Rojo lets wait to see if she can actually pull it off in two months, before you write Jenny off and start suggesting she should do the steeple.

I know you're intentionally trying to be sensationalist but pretty weird how you have to dump on someone who wasn't even in the race. Plus as others have stated, this is a very odd take. There's no reason to believe that Jenny would do better in the steeple than in the 1500 where she consistently manages to find a way. Muir ran her 3:55 PR in 2016, but who got the medal in Rio? Jenny has an excellent record of beating "faster" runners on the big day. I'm rooting for them both.

I generally think Rojo knows what he's talking about when it comes to running, but his quest to get Jenny Simpson to return to the steeple has always baffled me. I swear she could win Worlds this year in 4:05 and then someone else will run 3:55 next year and he'll say "It's all over, she has to move back to the steeple if she wants to do anything at the Olympics!"

Simpson is the greatest American 1500 runner ever and one of the most decorated women in the event from any country. Outside of 2012, when she didn't make the Olympic final, her championship record is incredible:

2011 Worlds: 1st

2012 Olympics: didn't make final

2013 Worlds: 2nd

2015 Worlds: 11th after losing her shoe

2016 Olympics: 3rd

2017 Worlds: 2nd

Given how good Chepkoech has been I think her odds of gold are smaller in the steeple than in the 1500. Plus it's already too late for her to get a qualifier to USAs...just a ridiculous argument.

bereasonable wrote:

What I find a bit concerning is that Muir in an interview before the race said she was in PB shape. Being in PB shape this amount of time out from worlds is still not even indicative of a guaranteed medal. Do you really think someone can hold peak fitness from now all the way till October. Not only poor tactics have ruined Muir's medal chances but also bad coaching. Idc who you are, You need your peak fitness to be aimed at the world champs where it counts the most. Especially in a deep event like the 1500.

It's called mental strength/positive thinking. It doesn't actually matter in what shape she is in, but she HAS to have a positive attitude before a race so she feels confident and take it down. No elite runner likes to go in a race saying "I'm not in good shape" or "the competition seems to tough today, I have no chance".

Her saying that doesn't mean anything, maybe she is in PR shape, maybe she is not, but whether she is or not she would have been positive in that interview.

Second, her coach is a beast. The Canadian girl improved tremendously since she started training with Muir and her coach, she literally came out of nowhere today and had a great race.

Lastly, Jemma Reekie ran 4:02 flat, a huge PR and she just turned 21. Big hope for the future. All of them are coached by Andy Young, so please don't question her coach he is doing amazing things with these women.

Bad coaching? Andy Young's athletes came 1st, 3rd, and 7th in that 1500. Stafford has broken 5 national records this season and beaten people like Klosterhalfen, Tseguy, Arafi, and got leaned by Simpson in Rome. Last year she was running 4:07 and losing to Shannon Osika.

Clearly not bad coaching. Where's the bad coaching accusations for Salazar for Hassan setting a WR so far from worlds? Silly comment.

That said, I think Muir herself has said never count Jenny out. Jenny is a clever runner and still ran sub 4 this year. If you are smart and in sub 4 shape you are always gonna be a medal threat. Sure, things are looking tough this year - I can't look past Dibaba or Kipyegon for Gold with Laura looking pretty good too. If Hassan runs the 1500 then one of those four isn't on the podium, let alone people like Simpson.

I wouldn't like to bet much money on Simpson getting a medal, but I think it would still be silly to count her out. She's too good.

People have to remember that this is Laura's first year of running full time. Being in PB shape now, and peaking in eight weeks are not mutually exclusive by any means.

I was going to say this - I think Muir prob is in 355 shape now - but could be down to 352/3 shape as season goes. Thinking back to her 355 she ran her first British record at this London meet (357) and that was off much more even pace - so definitely see her getting few seconds off her on this year.

While acknowledging the points above which say Rojo is off base here - comments about Muir fizzling out are wrong. Bottom line is Muir goes for gold in the last few major championships - and Simpson runs safe hoping to pick folks off at the end - and it’s worked. I mean can not argue with Simpson having a gold - and hopefully Muir will get one soon - but these 2 athletes aren’t comparable now at all.

British 1500 running going crazy just now - I think the reekie girl is about 6th on their list with a 4.02. Wonder if Weightman does the 5 at worlds.

The last 5 WCs were won with the following times:

2009 - 4:03.74

2011 - 4:05.40 (Jenny 1st)

2013 - 4:02.67 (Jenny 2nd)

2015 - 4:08.09 (Jenny 11th)

2017 - 4:02.59 (Jenny 2nd)

And the last 2 Olympics:

2012 - 4:10.23

2016 - 4:08.92 (Jenny 3rd)

All of those times are still within Jenny's wheelhouse. She is a savvy racer with probably more championship racing experience than anyone in the field. Is she a favorite? No. But in a championship race without pacers we have seen many times how faster time trialers can loose to runners with better tactical execution.

It's a terrific job of trolling by Rojo. I think he does think Jenny moving back to the steeple could be worth a shot, but the reason he consistently pushes it in such a aggressive manner is to mess with us.

I'm not convinced she'd come out and beat Emma and Courtney right away or ever, either.

Jenny always finds a way to medal. That is a fact. She just knows how to run in championship races.

Why?

Just like in the Olympics, Dibaba took it out too fast in the 3rd lap. She ran a 56 second third lap and was toast. Of course. the field responded in the third lap, but Jenny stayed calm, and out ran everyone down the stretch, except for Kipyegon and Dibaba ( almost caught her though).

What happened at the championships? This time Hassan tried to take it right after the third lap, and she faded down the stretch, and Muir faded as well. Jenny, again, calm as a cucumber, caught them down the stretch and took the silver.

Only Faith Kipyegon is unbeatable in those types of races......Everyone else, jenny can run down in a tactical race, and the women run tactical in 1500m championship races.

Jonathan Gault wrote:

I generally think Rojo knows what he's talking about when it comes to running, but his quest to get Jenny Simpson to return to the steeple has always baffled me.

That's his way of belittling the steeplechase, not Simpson. He thinks the steeplechase is for 2nd tier athletes, something he knows much about from personal experience.

I think the guy or gal point was if Muir raced for silver or bronze she’d have got Simpson in each of those races (starting 2015 or so when she hit the world stage).

Not criticizing Simpson - could be Muir could end career without major championship medal and will regret not being more conservative and picking up few second or third place finishes. Maybe little bit of pre about her and I bet some of those critiquing her here are pre fans.

Muir? Hassan? Hello , Faith will win the 1, 500 again! Anyone watch Pre?

Maybe Muir will break through this year and medal. I respect that she races to win. The difference: it was a fluke that Pre even got 4th in 1972 Olympics 5000m. Due to scheduling difficulties, Kipchoge Keino could not race 5000m. Miruts Yifter was either scared due to the international violent conflict after 10000m or someone made an honest scheduling error regarding Yifter missing 5000m. Anyway, Pre was not even in the top 5 best 5000m runners in Olympic village, 1972 Olympics. Muir will be one of three or four fastest 1500m runners entering 2019 World Championship.

Blah Blah. wrote:

Jonathan Gault wrote:

I generally think Rojo knows what he's talking about when it comes to running, but his quest to get Jenny Simpson to return to the steeple has always baffled me.

That's his way of belittling the steeplechase, not Simpson. He thinks the steeplechase is for 2nd tier athletes, something he knows much about from personal experience.

It's a second tier event financially, which is why Simpson will never run it again. 1500 simply pays better. If you were a meet promoter, would you pay for Simpson the 1500 medalist or Simpson the neophyte steepler?

Jenny Simpson is great at championship races, though she was surpassed decisively on the American stage last year by Houlihan. Nevertheless, she is a medal hope. Dibaba is fallible at championships; Obiri's a 5000m runner now; Hassan is going after the 5 and 10; Klosterhalfen doesn't have the kick yet; Houlihan and Muir are huge threats; Kipyegon is looking good again and so is going to be in there at the end. Winnie is a medal threat as well.

At steeple, many have surpassed her best of 9:12 over the last ten years, but two Americans with not even close to her 1500m (3:57) or 3000m ability (8:29) are 9 flat and 9:02 runners who have won gold and silver. So, I do think that Simpson would be a threat to medal in the steeple. Even Chepkoech might show problems in a championship race with heightened drug testing. Who knows? She was 4th and 8th in the steeple at World and Olympics early in her career (2009 and 2008), but in the 1500m she has a gold and two silvers at World's, plus an Olympic bronze, so she cannot be counted out. An American distance runner with four world and Olympic medals is rare, indeed, given not only Kenyan and Ethiopian dominance but also 46 xy runners and vast doping problems affecting her event from Eastern Europe, Turkey, and East Africa.