Taking easy runs too fast during summer

Easy is a feel, not a pace.

Remember, easy runs are also called recovery runs, and they’re called that because it’s mileage that recovers you from previous stress, such as a workout. Yeah, I would say that is a little too fast for easy run pace. To get the maximum benefits out of easy running and not just having them be as so called “running junk miles”, try to have them run 2-3 minutes slower than 5k PR pace for easy runs. More preferably 3 minutes because with proper rest, resolves to proper recovery, which will benefit them more later into the season. In all honesty, you can have them go as slow as you want them to, just referencing 2-3 minutes slower if they’re running a lot of mileage so they’re not running longer than they should be, but make sure that they’re hitting the 180 stride cadence per minute. Plus, if they’re doing all they’re easy runs at 50 sec. slower, it can possibly peak them too quickly during their season, or worse case, lead them to injury due to the non-proper recovery . For example. If you have a runner that has a PR of 18 minutes (5:50/mile) you want them to be running ideally between 7:50-8:50/mi on roads that have same type of layout, so if it was done on a flat course, they should ideally be, between those paces on a flat road or other terrain. Adjust the easy day paces according to type of area they’re running.

Fast, faster, fastest. wrote:

During summer, I’ve got my athletes running mostly just mileage, with strides, during June. Then, in July, we’ll work in two workouts a week, such as thresholds, hills and/or fartlrks. Ive noticed that some of the kids, who just started back last week, are running much faster on their runs than they have before. I’ve always told them 1:30-2:00 slower than 5k pace.; however, they are running their runs at :50 seconds to a 1:00 slower than their PR 5k pace. Should I be concearned that this is too fast for their runs, one week into summer training? To give some context, they are girls, who’ve run between high 17 and high 18 for the 5k

The first week back, they are running on fresh legs. So you might wait a few weeks and see if they settle down.

Yes they r ruining too fast. Your job as a coach is to reel them in. Get to work

Worked for John Walker:https://beaconhillstriders.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/John-Walker-Training-article.pdf Did most of his runs well under 5:30 pace, often sub 5 minute pace. And even his slower runs around 6 minute pace were over good hills, so probably equivalent to running sub 5:30 on flat terrain. Most elite runners back than could not train with him very often. Steve Scott after running with Walker, "11mi run with Walker and Dave. Head spinning afterwards." Also from Steve Scott training log, "Thursday: AM 5mi. PM Supposed to be social 10mi but ran hard with Pete. Sub52min!" If you feel good, nothing wrong with pushing the pace. Another thing, look at Steve Scott training log, most of the time their is no time of the run, but there is a comment of how he felt. This is what is important. Not some running formula that some nerd came up with of how fast or slow your runs should be. Run by feel and in the off season, since you are not doing any hard taxing workouts. More runs should be up tempo, read here, "too few tempos". https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=346165https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=3422852

malmo was right wrote:

Someone recently posted this Steve Jones podcast in a recent Steve Jones thread. Thought I would post it here, since he shares a very similar philosophy as Malmo on tempo running. Go to 1:06:09:

https://player.fm/series/running-rogue/episode-52-how-to-be-a-running-badass-with-steve-jones

Their legs are fresh from the break and you don’t have them doing any official hard workouts yet, so there is nothing to recover from.

Sounds like they are hitting what Lydia’s would have called Highest Steady State. These days we’d say they are below lactate turn point 2. Either way, this can be a very productive training pace and can be repeated successfully pretty often so long as the individual runs don’t become too long.

Nothing wrong with letting it rip when you feel good on summer easy runs.

balls to the walls wrote:

Worked for John Walker:

I've also read that runners used to warn each other not to attempt training with John Walker.

rather than using 5k pace, consider using physiology as the boundary for speed. you want the runners to strengthen their heart and build stroke volume. (this takes years) also you want them to stimulate "peripheral" adaptations, i.e. denser capillaries density and more mitochondria.

do this by telling them to run at a pace at which they can breathe through their noses. not sucking in air through the mouth. the other indicator is being able to speak a complete sentence. (not necessarily of joycean length)

if you've got a senior who has no plans to continue competing after h.s., you might let that athlete go faster, knowing she could be reaching the edge late in the x-c season.

and you can only let that student go fast if you know she will eat both well and enough. if there's any hint she's obsessive about her weight, talk to her parents. you're required to report abuse. self-abuse is a sub-category.

google stephen seiller, sports physiologist, for detail and supporting data

Fast, faster, fastest. wrote:

During summer, I’ve got my athletes running mostly just mileage, with strides, during June. Then, in July, we’ll work in two workouts a week, such as thresholds, hills and/or fartlrks. Ive noticed that some of the kids, who just started back last week, are running much faster on their runs than they have before. I’ve always told them 1:30-2:00 slower than 5k pace.; however, they are running their runs at :50 seconds to a 1:00 slower than their PR 5k pace. Should I be concearned that this is too fast for their runs, one week into summer training? To give some context, they are girls, who’ve run between high 17 and high 18 for the 5k

Is there a reason they are only doing easy runs for an entire month? Did they just run a marathon?

No? Well then stop being a MORON and give them some tempos. Either they're going to do most of their runs too fast or you can give them some tempos and fartleks now, like a normal base training program would have. Read some training articles, look up summer of malmo. Nobody who isn't just coming off sickness or injury should only do easy running. Feel matters a lot more than what a calendar says and your girls feel like they need to run faster than the dumb training program you have come up with requires. This is right and normal. You can keep being a bad coach though if you want, idc.

Fast, faster, fastest. wrote:

During summer, I’ve got my athletes running mostly just mileage, with strides, during June. Then, in July, we’ll work in two workouts a week, such as thresholds, hills and/or fartlrks. Ive noticed that some of the kids, who just started back last week, are running much faster on their runs than they have before. I’ve always told them 1:30-2:00 slower than 5k pace.; however, they are running their runs at :50 seconds to a 1:00 slower than their PR 5k pace. Should I be concearned that this is too fast for their runs, one week into summer training? To give some context, they are girls, who’ve run between high 17 and high 18 for the 5k

This is the problem with American high school ,college and university summer training in a nutshell. The so called base training should be "inbuilt" in the weekly program ALL summer, and still include faster training like maxVO2 and LT-paced intervals . What the runner doesn`t need during the summer are repetitions at 400/800/1500 / mile race pace that will be introduced a couple of weeks before the fall races starts if racing at 800-mile. The LSD easy runs should be mostly at about 1:05-1:10 min/km ( about 1:50 min/ mile) slower than 5 k race pace to give the very best aerob power effect. Running 50 sec- 1 min slower / mile is too fast.

- Swedish power coaching -

Did you not read the OP? This is their first week back to training. I've never found any training program that has a runner doing hard workouts during their first couple weeks back. Even Lydiard, the founder of high mileage, would recommend getting in some pure easy running before stepping up to his alternating easy-moderate base phase. Plus this are high schoolers. There's no need for them to go be going super hard all year round. Let them more naturally build up. Maybe some fartleks once a week for them, but just leave it unstructured for now

Maybe Walker could have been faster if he wasn’t training so hard...?

Which is why tinman runners are running slower than Walker.

You're probably breaking State federation rules by having any contact at all this time of year. Perhaps several rules - how many organized practices per week, what dates the official season starts etc.

When I was in high school, practice started on a certain date. Rest assured I didn't show, but I had no contact whatsoever with coaches prior to that date. I was able to dodge them even after that date, but I would not have appreciated some self-appointed (keep in mind that no one is paying you if there is no official school capacity being fulfilled, such as when school is out) coach breathing down my neck all summer.

half of training is recovery.

if you don't monitor and understand recovery,

get out of coaching.

but when you do the work, kickaass.

right, like 70 minute runs plus or minus at close to 5 min, and smashing hills, and fooling around with it a bit.

that's for the base. these guys could have worked a bit harder, but recovered more.

most people will die doing this however.

the thing about walker, is he altered the lydiard method to his personality.

he was a horse and had a high capacity for work, so he could get away with social 52 minute 10 milers.

i think if he ran 530 miles he was sick or especially disciplined after some special track work.

anyway he only had to work 70 minutes a day, plus a long run once a week.

this makes room for recovery, just laze around all day.

walker was kind of lazy.

BergLaufer wrote:

Easy is a feel, not a pace.

_____________________________________________________

If your runner can't physically and mentally do the easy days at conversational pace

he/she is not training properly and perhaps the stop watch could be used to regulate.

Yes, as a coach, it is your job to inform him/her that they are not doing the workout correctly when they are

running too fast.

Praise for the ones who do it correctly helps show the over anxious that they are wrong.