Coaches - When do you know to convert a 400 runner to an 800 runner?

A 400 runner who comes out for xc is now an 800 runner :)

If you think they'll honestly consider it, it is time

If you're a HS athlete running 46/47sec and can't break 21.0 - then they need to move up.

Look at Devin Dixon as an example;

HS 46.91/1:49.52

CL 45.22/1:44.76

or Raven Rodgers

HS 53.34/2:03.32

CL 52.30/1:59.10

Pro 52.06/1:57.69

Thanks for the insights. Always tough to have the athlete change focus and take a chance when there has been success. I guess it really depends on the goal of the athlete.

Ironic that Dixon actually went the other direction. He started as a miler and dropped down. 4:22 as a 10th grader and a XC PR of 16:10.

Is that you, Shawn?

Junior AJ Green from Eastview High (Minnesota) was running mostly 400s as an 8th and 9th grader, and in May 2017 (his 9th grade year) he ran a 1:57 in the 800, and at state 2017 he ran a 1:53 as an anchor leg in the 4x800 which is faster than any 800 times at the state meet that year. He ran a sub 1:50 (1:49.83) yesterday. Fastest 800 in the nation of the season so far.

All time high school National record is 1:46.45 set by Michael Granville in 1996.

You never convert a 400 runner to 800 runner.

If he's truly a 400 runner, he'll never be a good 800 guy.

Now if you are talking about average guys, then yeah, a 100 guy can run the occasional 1:52. If you are talking about big races, running many rounds in a day, then forget it.

400 runners hate the sound of the bell. One lap is enough.

Just cos a 400 guy can run sub 1:48, doesn't make him an 800 guy.

Especially if he's running 45 seconds.

@omygooodness what runner do you know who has run 45 and 1:48?

Everything is a progression along a spectrum. 800m training doesn't have to be significantly different to 400m training. If you notice their 100/200 speed is lacking, and you have tried to address it without success, then you can explore the endurance side of 400m training more. if that is their strength, then you can dabble in some 800m sessions.

The problem occurs when people classify the 400 as a sprint and the 800 as a distance event, and then train them like they are very different. They are different, but they aren't VERY different. YOu don't have to train for 5k in order to run a good 800. There will be pieces of 5k training that are appropriate, but you don't have to switch the training protocol whole sale. That is a recipe of disaster.

JRinaldi wrote:

If you're a HS athlete running 46/47sec and can't break 21.0 - then they need to move up.

Look at Devin Dixon as an example;

HS 46.91/1:49.52

CL 45.22/1:44.76

or Raven Rodgers

HS 53.34/2:03.32

CL 52.30/1:59.10

Pro 52.06/1:57.69

Do you know any faster than average 400m athletes?

If a high school athlete has not broken 21.0 for 200m and has not broken 46 for 400m, said high school athlete, should throw in the town and give up on sprinting according to you. Wow! what a foolish post. A high school 46.0 to 47.99 400m athlete will get between a partial to full ride, either D-1 or D-2 as a 400m specialist.

Do you know ... wrote:

JRinaldi wrote:

If you're a HS athlete running 46/47sec and can't break 21.0 - then they need to move up.

Look at Devin Dixon as an example;

HS 46.91/1:49.52

CL 45.22/1:44.76

or Raven Rodgers

HS 53.34/2:03.32

CL 52.30/1:59.10

Pro 52.06/1:57.69

Do you know any faster than average 400m athletes?

If a high school athlete has not broken 21.0 for 200m and has not broken 46 for 400m, said high school athlete, should throw in the towel and give up on sprinting according to you. Wow! what a foolish post. A high school 46.0 to 47.99 400m athlete will get between a partial to full ride, either D-1 or D-2 as a 400m specialist.

I always like the idea of training a kid like an 800m runner if there is any doubt. If a kid has legit 400m speed, he'll still be able to step down to the 400m and crush it.

It's always dangerous to move an athlete who has found success in a given event and moving from the 400 to the 800 is probably the hardest single jump in distance to make (except maybe 10k to marathon). I think to make the decision to move an athlete up to the 800, you need three thing to be true: 1) the athlete has stopped improving at the short sprints (100/200m), his/her 400m time is starting to look relatively much better than his/her 200m time and as a result the 400m time is going to plateau soon if it hasn't already and 3) the athlete is ambitious enough to want more success than that 400m time is going to bring.

800 Question wrote:

My question is as stated in the title, when do you know to switch the focus of a 400 runner to becoming an 800 runner, specifically at the high school level. To be a top-level 800 runner, you need pretty good 400 speed. These types of runners are rather competitive on the high school scene and it is difficult to take that success away from them for the unknown of a new event. Obviously, running these events are not mutually exclusive but training should be a little different. I have my ideas, but was curious about what others thought/have done in the past.

When a kid runs 48 but can never truly be competitive at the 400. (48 in d1 means nothing unless you’re winning a prelim)

most probably wont convert successfully,especially if theyre more of a true sprinter,but you do get the odd exception.alberto juantorena,jarmila kratochvilova,ana quirot,caster semenya and some others.

When the run the fastest 800 on the team at a weekday meet for "strength training." But then the sprints coach won't let you.

A 400 guy can move up to the 800 if he has :

THE DESIRE TO DO SO

THE GUTS TO DO SO

ENOUGH SLOW TWITCH FIBER ---- AS TRUE SPRINTERS CAN'T GO THERE JUST AS TRUE DISTANCE GUYS CAN'T DROP DOWN TO THE 100/200

RESPECT AND TRUST FOR HIS COACH'S KNOWLEDGE.

In effect, not many make it.