Has anyone experimented with HR training for recovery between intervals instead of a set time? I ask because my recovery rate is super fast and I think it actually hurts me. For example if I’m doing 1Ks in 3:00 and I’m taking 2 minutes rest, but my heart rate is back down to 90 BPM by the time I start the next interval, I don’t think I’m getting as much out of the workout. I’ve heard you should start your next interval at 120 BPM to maximize the gains of the workout. Any feedback on this?
Rereply wrote:
Has anyone experimented with HR training for recovery between intervals instead of a set time? I ask because my recovery rate is super fast and I think it actually hurts me. For example if I’m doing 1Ks in 3:00 and I’m taking 2 minutes rest, but my heart rate is back down to 90 BPM by the time I start the next interval, I don’t think I’m getting as much out of the workout. I’ve heard you should start your next interval at 120 BPM to maximize the gains of the workout. Any feedback on this?
Great question. I’m curious too.
Good idea, especially during the summer.
Rereply wrote:
Has anyone experimented with HR training for recovery between intervals instead of a set time? I ask because my recovery rate is super fast and I think it actually hurts me. For example if I’m doing 1Ks in 3:00 and I’m taking 2 minutes rest, but my heart rate is back down to 90 BPM by the time I start the next interval, I don’t think I’m getting as much out of the workout. I’ve heard you should start your next interval at 120 BPM to maximize the gains of the workout. Any feedback on this?
Maybe you have seen my frequent posts and comments about heartrate based interval training. The famous German coach Woldemar Gerschler(1930-1950, together with Ph Reindel) found out in scientific tests and in practice that to gain max effect out of the intervals the rest time had to be resting down back to 120 bpm . He had his runners to reach about 180 bpm at the reps and then recover back to 120 bpm . He and Reindel found out this way the heart grow strongest and strokevolume became "maxed". Try to test out running 12-20 x 400m at 5 k race pace with rest easy walking until heartrate is back to 120 bpm ( or 60% of MHR) . All runners I have coached just tells it`s just perfect and gives the individual rest needed after every rep. By the way you are running wrong pace at 1 k reps if your heartrate drops to 90 bpm in 2 min . You need to run faster. Good luck! ))
- COACH J.S -
SUPERIOR COACH JS wrote:
Maybe you have seen my frequent posts and comments about heartrate based interval training. The famous German coach Woldemar Gerschler(1930-1950, together with Ph Reindel) found out in scientific tests and in practice that to gain max effect out of the intervals the rest time had to be resting down back to 120 bpm . He had his runners to reach about 180 bpm at the reps and then recover back to 120 bpm . He and Reindel found out this way the heart grow strongest and strokevolume became "maxed". Try to test out running 12-20 x 400m at 5 k race pace with rest easy walking until heartrate is back to 120 bpm ( or 60% of MHR) . All runners I have coached just tells it`s just perfect and gives the individual rest needed after every rep. By the way you are running wrong pace at 1 k reps if your heartrate drops to 90 bpm in 2 min . You need to run faster. Good luck! ))
- COACH J.S -
my max hr is 212...should i rest till 120 bpm?
If your heart rate gets down to 90, then you're going to have venous pooling in the legs. You definitely don't want that to happen.
I have always done recovery intervals by time, but I watch the HR. I have a pretty good idea of how I recover, so I wouldn't write myself a workout where my HR got to 90 during a recovery interval.
If changing the workout isn't an option (maybe you're training with a team), then try jogging between reps, which should keep your HR high enough.
2 minutes for 1ks is pretty long, in any event. I wouldn't do more than 90 seconds for a 1k, unless I were rolling right into a running recovery at a legit, non-shuffling pace.
Also, don't worry about maximizing stroke volume. That will happen under any decent training regime without workouts targeted at it. Performance is the result of more biological parameters than we are even aware of.
800 dude wrote:
If your heart rate gets down to 90, then you're going to have venous pooling in the legs. You definitely don't want that to happen.
I have always done recovery intervals by time, but I watch the HR. I have a pretty good idea of how I recover, so I wouldn't write myself a workout where my HR got to 90 during a recovery interval.
If changing the workout isn't an option (maybe you're training with a team), then try jogging between reps, which should keep your HR high enough.
2 minutes for 1ks is pretty long, in any event. I wouldn't do more than 90 seconds for a 1k, unless I were rolling right into a running recovery at a legit, non-shuffling pace.
Also, don't worry about maximizing stroke volume. That will happen under any decent training regime without workouts targeted at it. Performance is the result of more biological parameters than we are even aware of.
Well said dude.
800 dude wrote:
If your heart rate gets down to 90, then you're going to have venous pooling in the legs. You definitely don't want that to happen.
What does "venous pooling in the legs" mean in plainer English?
What does it do to one's running?
Uhhh said: What does "venous pooling in the legs" mean in plainer English?
arteries run from the heart to supply blood to the body. veins are the opposite, they carry blood from the extremities and organs back to the heart.
blood coming up your legs would have to be pumped pretty hard to go all the way up your legs, especially when you are upright, so the veins in your legs have tiny valves in them that act like the locks in a canal, they prevent the blood from falling all the way back down to your feet between heart beats.
in certain conditions, the blood collects in these locks, so that instead of being pumped back to the heart it pools in the gaps between the valves. this is called venous pooling, "pooling in the veins."
it causes, among other things, varicose veins.
cheers.
so, why do i feel 10x stronger with standing rest? shouldn't "venous pooling in the legs" make me feel worse?
The OP is one of Island/Coach JS's sockpuppets
SUPERIOR COACH JS wrote:
Maybe you have seen my frequent posts and comments about heartrate based interval training. The famous German coach Woldemar Gerschler(1930-1950, together with Ph Reindel) found out in scientific tests and in practice that to gain max effect out of the intervals the rest time had to be resting down back to 120 bpm . He had his runners to reach about 180 bpm at the reps and then recover back to 120 bpm . He and Reindel found out this way the heart grow strongest and strokevolume became "maxed". Try to test out running 12-20 x 400m at 5 k race pace with rest easy walking until heartrate is back to 120 bpm ( or 60% of MHR) . All runners I have coached just tells it`s just perfect and gives the individual rest needed after every rep. By the way you are running wrong pace at 1 k reps if your heartrate drops to 90 bpm in 2 min . You need to run faster. Good luck! ))
- COACH J.S -
+ 1
Thanks that's what I found in my research as well. I am actually not running the wrong pace in my 1Ks I just have a freakishly fast recovery rate. I would be running them in 2:57 and my 5K PR is only 14:54...
My heart rate goes back down to 90 after two minutes while doing 400's in 67 as well.
Excited to make the adjustment and do HR based recovery in the future.
jorg.99 said: so, why do i feel 10x stronger with standing rest? shouldn't "venous pooling in the legs" make me feel worse?
you are actually asking two different questions here.
1. so, why do i feel 10x stronger with standing rest?
I presume that you mean 10x stronger than a jog recovery. in which case the answer is that standing still aids recovery; by standing still you are recovering more, and therefore you feel better.
2. shouldn't "venous pooling in the legs" make me feel worse?
only if you are experiencing venous pooling. if you are young, fit, and healthy there is no reason to suppose that you experience venous pooling just because you happen to be standing up when you exercise. otherwise basketball players, baseball players, boxers and all sorts of other sports persons would be keeling over from venous pooling on tv every week.
in short, the "in certain conditions," part of what I said does not apply to you because you do not have any of the conditions that cause venous pooling. it doesn't happen to everyone, you have to have the conditions that cause it.
cheers.
Haha , I knew it was JS the moment I read the post, but I did not bother to tease him this time, actually I think he is fun.
Heinrich wrote:
SUPERIOR COACH JS wrote:
Maybe you have seen my frequent posts and comments about heartrate based interval training. The famous German coach Woldemar Gerschler(1930-1950, together with Ph Reindel) found out in scientific tests and in practice that to gain max effect out of the intervals the rest time had to be resting down back to 120 bpm . He had his runners to reach about 180 bpm at the reps and then recover back to 120 bpm . He and Reindel found out this way the heart grow strongest and strokevolume became "maxed". Try to test out running 12-20 x 400m at 5 k race pace with rest easy walking until heartrate is back to 120 bpm ( or 60% of MHR) . All runners I have coached just tells it`s just perfect and gives the individual rest needed after every rep. By the way you are running wrong pace at 1 k reps if your heartrate drops to 90 bpm in 2 min . You need to run faster. Good luck! ))
- COACH J.S -
my max hr is 212...should i rest till 120 bpm?
You can experiment with rest down to 125 bpm and 120 bpm to see what happens with recovery time and feeling.
Rereply wrote:
Thanks that's what I found in my research as well. I am actually not running the wrong pace in my 1Ks I just have a freakishly fast recovery rate. I would be running them in 2:57 and my 5K PR is only 14:54...
My heart rate goes back down to 90 after two minutes while doing 400's in 67 as well.
Excited to make the adjustment and do HR based recovery in the future.
Sounds strange if authentic......Whatever your rest time is between 400s and 1 k`s I advice you to follow your heart to decide your very best individual rest time down to 120 bpm .That`s the perfect individual rest!
SprintTriathlon wrote:
Haha , I knew it was JS the moment I read the post, but I did not bother to tease him this time, actually I think he is fun.
I`m not the OP .......I promise ..........and when I promise it`s always the truth. ))
This is great advice, thank you, I'll try it too. I think it will be great!
Liam696 wrote:
This is great advice, thank you, I'll try it too. I think it will be great!
I have now coached about 100 Runners of different levels in four years time, among them twelve winners of international races , and all use/have been using the recovery down to 120 bpm when running intervals. Try it if you haven`t Before. Good luck!
- The Wizard -