Road Racing and Training Thread - Week Ending 5/26/2019

40 y old/Male/175 lbs

PR's:

a) Marathon: 3:06:4x

b) Half: 1:26:1x

c) 10K: 39:1x

Goals:

1) Run a sub 3 marathon in 2019

2) Time-qualify for New York Marathon in 2019 (run 1:24:59 for the half)

M: 10.2 @ 8:30

T: 8.5 @ 7:49

W: 10 @ 7:20 with 20 x 1 min on/off

Th: Rest

F: 8.2 @ 7:36

Sa: 8.1 @ 11:35

Su: 21 @ 7:40

Weekly mileage: 65 miles

a) Took Thursday off. Few conflicts at work ensured that I could not get my usual lunch run in. Wasn't in the right frame of mind to go out for a run in the evening too. It is the reason for me missing the 70 miles weekly mileage goal, but I am not fretting too much about it.

b) Decent Wednesday workout. Hit the 1 min on's at about 6 min/mile pace. Felt controlled.

c) Saturday's run had an elevation gain of 2500 ft. Climbed the local hill with a group of friends. 2500 ft gain in 4 .1 miles - the last 0.5 mile is not runnable as the route goes over rocks to get to the peak.

d) Sunday's long run felt harder than I would have wanted. The gravel route and sore quads from the previous days downhill made this feel tough.

M35, 5’10”, 158

Upcoming:

6/8 - Market Square Day 10k

6/13 - Hollis Fast 5k (224' drop)

6/20 - JP Morgan Corporate Challenge - Boston

...

10/13 - Chicago

Mo: 8 easy with 5 strides - hot and humid lunch run

Tu: 11 total - track workout - 5 x 3' @ 5k, 2' E. 3mi up, 4mi down

We: 9 easy

Th: easy 3 AM, 8.5 PM - local trail series "10k" at threshold effort (won the race and a pineapple again)

Fr: 13+ easy for a sorta long run

Sa: 5 easy with 5 strides

Su: 7.6 total, Cisco 5k - 17:42 the hard way (5:11, 5:35, 6:10!). Hot.

Total: 66 miles

Welp, yesterday was a kick in the ass. I was way too fixated on pace and spent the first mile going too fast, then too slow, then ultimately too fast. Usually I go out in 5:25 - 5:30 and hold that or speed up a bit. Hoping it was just the fast start and the first hot race in a while, but it's hard not to get disappointed in that result when I was aiming for sub-17 at least and < 16:40 at best. Although my last 5k was on Thanksgiving Day in 8 degree temps, and yesterday was about 80 with some wind. Otherwise it was a good week with a lot of work, so maybe just running on tired legs. My calf issue did come back a bit in a different spot after doing strides on Saturday, but I think it's just a nerve issue and not a real calf strain because it doesn't actually hurt - it more feels like a knot or something. I had a friend in the race tell me my legs weren't really moving normally in mile 3, so hopefully it's not connected to that. Will keep the mileage rolling this week, before cutting down next week and try to run smarter in the 10k coming up. I'm also considering adding a "downhill" 5k to the schedule to just get some confidence back at that pace before the JP Morgan race.

Hope everyone has a good Memorial Day!

masters runner

outdoor track

60.9 for the week, 7 hours, 38 minutes total running, 1818 ascending

7 days running, 9 total runs

longest run 90:07 (12.7 miles)

1 faster session (8+ miles @ rough marathon tempo, or 6:20ish) 67:27 total for 10.4 miles

Overview: big travel week with my daughters university graduation (London) and friends wedding (Columbus, OH) to attend. I got out the door daily, but several runs were limited to 30 minutes. I had a bit more time over the weekend and packed in 27+ miles, or nearly half my weekly total. The urban (Olentangy) bike trail in Columbus gets a big "thumbs up" btw. Looking ahead: I hope to get in a decent 6+ training block moving forward with consistent volume, faster sessions and a long runs...

GT - solid tempo and longer reps, balanced week

jot quill- another really good week of training and 5k...really like the in & out k's & minutes

rrr - good luck with the deuce Friday evening..always painful!

CM - all the best at BB today! long of fast "cats" to run with

LWFH - you have plenty of speed for a sub 2:30 effort at Berlin...one of my favorite marathons

sub 6 - solid and balanced week

Allen - super solid week and TT!

OR - great k session and week in summer fun

All the best in the training & racing week ahead!

Male, 34, 5’10” 160 lbs

PRs: 16:03 (2011) 2:56:47 (2016)

Recent: 17:32 (2019) 1:25:28 (2019)

Next Goal: 1500m race on June 15

Week 15

M: 45 minutes easy

T: 85 minutes easy

W: Alternations 3 min hard / 3 min float / for total of 100 minutes

R: 60 minutes easy

F: 75 minutes easy

Sa: 105 minutes easy

Su: 45 minutes easy

Memorial Day: 1600m time trial - 5:05

Was waiting to post because of today’s time trial at the track. Splits were 74, 77, 77, 77....pretty happy with it and now I know that I just need to work on some more speed endurance!

Wednesday’s workout was a lot of fun too. I was trying to control the on segments, keep the floats honest, all the while making sure not to blur the two zones. Hope everyone has a great week!

Leaderboard

Bird502 92.88% (HM...1:03:41)

Coyote Montane 92.88%(8K...28:19)

statfanatic 91.64% (1 mi...4:03)

Urban Diesel 90.59% (3K...9:29)

Smoove 89.32% (Marathon...2:30:44)

Runn3grl123 87.46% (5K...16:53)

Bdubs 86.93% (5K...15:26)

krishna 85.27% (3K...8:38)

outsiderunner 85.18% (5K...17:19)

th3bt 84.62% (10K...34:21)

Jewbacca 84.43% (10K...32:13)

darkwave 84.23% (10 miler...1:02:28)

slow-twitch 83.64% (HM...1:11:36)

Andy Dufresne 83.56% (HM..1:10:54)

th3bt 83.4% (10K...35:23)

Stone Cutter 82.55% (5K...16:43)

Sub 6:00 82.41% (5K...16:01)

Allen 82.39% (5K...19:13)

pewow 82.14% (1 mi...4:31)

Bruin1996 81.53% (HM...1:15:59)

HHH 81.06% (HM...1:13:10)

team1 80.09% (Marathon...2:40:11)

runrincerepeat 78.88% (5K...16:44)

angryjohnny 78.84% (HM...1:15:17)

Still Improving 78.75% (Marathon...2:57:06)

hantph96 78.56% (5K...16:33)

Gordon Tremeshko 78.47% (5K...16:34)

DietBacon 77.85%(10K...34:19)

LancRunner 76.98% (5K...17:14)

Jot quill 76.17% (HM...1:16:39)

RunnerSam 76.16% (5K...16:56)

Coach Jeff 76.03% (5K...19:24)

Tall dark roast 75.84% (5K...17:19)

Jeremy 75.65% (5K...17:15)

dirtroadSC 75.02% (5K...18:17)

Working Harder 73.87% (HM..1:21:50)

Guy Broman 73.25% (5K...17:49)

NYCHalf 72.76% (HM...1:20:16)

James Corden 71.53% (5K...18:09)

Cocoon 70.65% (10K...39:14)

Runningforfun 68.93% (HM...1:25:57)

RunGuy Midwest 68.62 %(Marathon...2:59:10)

KidB 68.38% (HM...1:25:23)

SOBO 67.1% (10K...39:49)

PutoMiudo 67.02% (10K...39:52)

JamesTheAmateur 61.62% (1500m...5:34)

*If you want to be included on this list, submit your age and best performance at any distance within the last year. If your performance has expired or has been recorded here inaccurately, please let me know and it will be modified.

SC: Nice 400!

JQ: Great time and a cool office event. Something something teambuilding.

Sub 6: Beer mile. Yes. Can't wait.

jewbacca: Good progress, sounds like its coming right along.

JtA: My in-laws are great but it is mentally draining for me to have house guests. I clean up pretty well for a few days at a time, but then I have recharge by going feral for a bit.

TDR: Nice 1600!

M, 31, 6'1" 160

New 5k PR: 16:49

27.3 miles last week, all easy except Wednesday's second run: 1 mile in 5:20, 880 in 2:40, 440 in 1:12. 440 jog rests.

Memorial Day 5k in 16:49, a six second improvement on a 10-year old track time. Some up hill in the first and last miles, down hill middle mile.

I'm so glad I ran this and ran hard. Despite dropping the mileage, I did not feel particularly well-rested after spending all weekend on my feet with toddler dance recitals, extended-family events and power outages.

This was on the calendar for awhile, but I was planning to go another few weeks before really shooting for the PR. I'm thrilled and will now put myself into a barbecue-induced coma to regain my strength.

Ran my road mile in 5:37 - split as 79/88/86/84, so I guess 79 is my submission to the 400m list.

Not happy with it - went out a bit too hot (it's a downhill start, but still), and was in oxygen debt well before 800m, so the last 800 was pretty painful. At least I didn't get passed and managed to reel in a few people, so it wasn't like I race awfully. 14th female and second master.

My coach was there and noted that I looked uncomfortable - which matched how I felt. I tend to have a different gait/footstrike at different speeds, and I'm usually up on my toes for my fastest miles - today I felt like I was stuck in 5K gait, if that makes sense. Racing awkwardly, and too far back on my foot.

So....after my June half, I'm going to dig into improving my mile until September, when I'll shift back into marathon training.

Got to meet OutsideRunner in the flesh, so that was the highlight of the morning!

****

My heart rate for the race didn't go up very high, despite the fact that I was well warmed up (3.5 miles, including two very hard segments of about 70 seconds, and strides until we lined up). Which reminded me of past HR discussions here, and a question I wanted to raise to see if anyone had any insight.

I am aware of the phenomenon of cardiac lag - the idea that your HR doesn't adjust instantaneously to effort, but rises over time. This is why you shouldn't run short intervals based on HR - your HR won't rise to match the effort until the interval is done.

However, my HR has always seemed much more "laggy" than others (one reason that I don't train by it).

For example, my max HR for the mile today was 176 - in the middle of what I usually hit during tempo workouts. And that's consistent for my experience with mile races - my HR never goes up very high.

In contrast, I maxed out at 184 during my last 5K. And maxed out at 180 during CIM, Broad Street 10, and Shamrock Half.

So...my question is: has anyone else observed similar? Is this normal and I just don't realize it? Or is it off, and if so, any ideas as to why? Again, I understand the concept of cardiac lag, but it seems to me that a mile should be long enough that lag is not a factor, especially if one is well warmed up beforehand.

I'm guessing that is the same downhill mile that Statfanatic did in Va this morning

- RS

*marginally downhill. Second quarter uphill is a killer.

M42, 5'10 145ish

Goal: Improve aerobic base following my interpretation of Hadd Phase 1 and any other tips I can pick up.

Upcoming Races: Deadwood-Mickelson Half Marathon this coming Sunday

This Week:

Mon - 1:45 Treadmill @ 8:50 (121 bpm)

Tue - Rest

Wed - 1:45 Treadmill @ 8:51 (123 bpm)

Thur - 1:45 @ 8:46 (131 bpm)

Fri Run 1 - Workout - 7 miles with 2 miles @ Sub LTHR - Mile 1 @ 6:24 (164 bpm), Mile 2 @ 6:24 (170 bpm) + alactic sprints

Fri Run 2 - 50 min @ 8:46 (bad HR data again)

Sat Run 1- 1:50 @ 8:55 (134 bpm)

Sat Run 2 with friends - 1:10 @ 10:48 (123 bpm)

Sun - 30 min @ 9:03 (139 bpm)

Notes: I usually don't run with music but put music on for the last few miles of one of my runs and my HR shot up by roughly 8 bpm over that time span.

Summary:

Dead Easy Miles: 69.5

Sub LT Miles: 2

Total Miles: 71.5

darkwave - What a pleasure it was to meet you, and it surely was the highlight of my busy day. You are exactly as I thought you would be. Hope to see you again sometime.

stat - You ran the race, too? You should have stopped in the store. It would have been nice to meet you.

Hey all - getting back in after missing last week’s thread due to a family situation.

49yo male, 6’0”, 158lbs

Goal = Compete for podium in 50-55 AG @ Boston 2020

Still building slowly and steadily with the long term in mind. “Brick by brick” is my mentality.

Week ending 5/19 = 50m, mostly easy, with some strength and strides on a few days

Week ending 5/26 (cut-down recovery week, all easy miles):

M - 4

T - 6

W - 4

T - 4

F - 6

S - 10

S - 6

40m total. Feeling positive and healthy.

Hope all had a good Memorial Day. Will add comments later.

Congrats on the 5K PR JQ! Good run and you've improved a lot from 19s!

And also congrats to pewow, had to do a double take!

darkwave, the mile is an acquired taste and you'll probably need to do a few more to get the feel for it. And yes maybe your HR didn't spike anymore because of running economy, you're legs just aren't ready to sustain that speed yet.

I did Bolder Boulder for the 10th time (first one dating back to 1983). Had a good day out there under probably the best or one of the best weather days ever. It was 50, not much or any wind, and partly cloudy.

Splits were 6:13, 6:08, 6:14 (2 and 3 are mostly uphill), 6:10, 5:54 (downhill through downtown), 6:09 to finish in 38:10. I beat the age record by more than a minute. Final results still not up, and there were some fast masters coming in from later waves but it should probably hold up. About 30 sec faster than what I did in 2016-18, although was held back some in those years by ancillary factors.

I enjoy this race. It's a challenging course but a festive day and the field is always so deep. And they do a great job with race management.

M/35/145

This week - Lots of travel, but not bad week, legs felt really heavy at end of the week, not sure why, maybe just all the travel is wearing on me. Race this weekend, a bit worried with the feeling in the legs, but race day should fix that.

M - 7.2 miles - 7:14/mile

Tu - Seattle - 9.4 miles 7:13/mile

W - 2 WU, 7x1k on dirt track at Green Lake, Seattle, 2 mile CD

Th - 6.3 miles after a really long plane ride, felt OK

F - 7 miles, 7:25/mile - Felt awfully hard. Legs heavy

Sa - 2 mile WU, 400 TT, 3 miles Tempo (6:25, 6:17, 6:06), 2 mile CD

Su - 4 miles at 7:19 - Felt like 94 degrees out, just cut short and let it be

51.8 miles

Got a race this coming weekend, local big 5 miler. Should be fun

400 TT - my time was 64 Flat. Man, i feel like I left a few seconds in that first 100 bc i'm not used to getting out that hard. Legs felt it after the 400 though, basically ruining my tempo run, but whatever. Worth it. Think i might be able to hit 62 if I pushed a bit harder, but happy with the result.

I'll read and comment later, just getting this out. Actually on the train right now to Philly... Amtrak feel so civilized.

Very busy week outside of running so the volume was very low, but I'm racing twice this week (counting yesterday) so we'll call it a taper.

M - 8 miles with some 200s at the end. 3 minutes jogging between sets.

5x200 (45 seconds rest): 31.3, 32.0, 30.8, 30.5, 30.5.

4x200 (60 seconds rest): 29.5, 29.5, 28.5, 28.5

3x200 (90 seconds rest): 28.6, 27.7, 26.1

T - 30ish minutes easy. No watch or anything since I forgot it when I left for work in the morning so couldn't tell you anything more about this one.

W - wu/cd + 2 mile tempo, 2x4x400.

2 mile tempo: 10:45 (on the roads)

Set 1 (90 Seconds Rest): 63.3, 63.5, 64.2, 63.1

Set 2 (90 Seconds Rest): 62.1, 61.8, 61.7 (2 min) 58.8

T - 6 miles easy, 6:40 avg.

F - 7 miles easy, 6:30 avg (AM) + 5 miles easy, 6:22 avg. (PM)

S - off, busy day then ended up with a migraine in the evening so didn't run.

S - 7 miles easy with pre-race strides. 6:45 avg.

Raced a road mile yesterday which went relatively okay. First quarter is sliiightly downhill so we got out decently, probably 61 or 62 through the quarter mile. Then the second quarter was uphill and the race really slowed going through 800 in 2:12 when the pre-race favorite (3:57 miler) made his move. I tried to cover it quickly but was a couple steps off as we hit the downhill to the third quarter. I run downhills very poorly but managed to stay within striking range and close the gap slightly coming off the hill and past the 3/4 marker. Ran out of gas about 200 meters later though and second went past me there. Held third through the line but was well off the front by then finishing in 4:15. Winner went 4:12. I'm not terribly pleased with my performance but it also could've been worse. Need to get back to being able to close off a slow pace better.

Picked up a nasty blister for my troubles, likely thanks to the down hill, so hopefully that doesn't cause any issues later this week. Definitely a bit painful right now though.

Nice mile racing!

I closed out my little race week workout yesterday with a 71 road quarter...NOT looking forward to my JQ challenge track quarter next week. 7 seconds faster sounds absolutely dreadful but (DBAP R3)

TheStoneCutter - Did you just switch to kms? and if so why? hopefully it isn't the hitting splits based on 42km rather than 26mi argument. (if it was in one of the last weeks threads just lemme know and I'll go read).

GT - Good idea with the hill repeats, I've been putting them off. Your workouts are looking quick, should be a great race

LongWayFromHome - yeah those 1ks are moving, hopefully your adjustments to easy days will be good to get rid of the 'trashed' feeling. A lot of guys are not willing to slow down the easy days.

Sub 6 - Nice racing schedule

OR - So Stone's coaching is back underway now? 90miles, with those daily paces is quite impressive

Smoove - Progress, glad your back into it

JamesTheAmateur - my Dad typically runs in the 10min/mi +- 30s range. I will ask you the same question I ask him. What is your limiting factor on pace of any given run? Or what is different on the days you run faster with the same effort? As I continue to run ~30-45min/mi slower than last year on typical runs I'm asking myself this question

Darkwave - that is a pretty good friday workout! Might see you at some road miles, West Chester Mile is a good one if you are willing to do track, Main St Mile in Newark, De also good but feels a little hilly, they offer some $ for a CR which might be soft

James - I understand the slow build disappointment, mine has been because of laziness rather than business so I really have no excuse. You are right that consistency is very important, I have a few friends who have improved well over the last year or so by simple day in day out consistency

Cocoon - nice LR, I'm sure it was enjoyable. I am planning a very similar LR this sunday. It'll likely kick my butt since I haven't been hitting the hills enough

tall dark roast - wonderfully split 1600, I'm assuming it was solo and the shorter efforts are tough solo. Will be nice to have people to race come June

Guy Broman - I'm sure it feels good to PR after that long! Nice Job

darkwave - Rough mile it sounds like, but the first of many though

LancRunner - based on your shorter repeats I'm guessing you can improve upon that 400m, I might try to add one on at the end of a workout if I feel good but I'm so far out of shape its probably not worth it for a few months.

Everybody else, hope returning to work has gone well after the long weekend

-RS

Making some time for a few comments:

GT - Looking sexy for this weekend.

JQ - Congrats on your continued great racing streak.

LWFH - I agree that a 5000m PR may be on the way soon. Stellar work.

pewow - Congrats again, man.

MG83 - Ouch on the 5k. I am sorry if you have already mentioned it, but what is the Chicago goal?

TDR - Strong 1600m TT.

Guy Broman - Congrats on the 5k PR.

darkwave - Solid mile, even if more painful than anticipated.

Coyote - Really impressive running at altitude. You have also been on quite the race streak this year.

stat - so roughly a 62, a 70, then a 2:03 to close? Not bad in the grand scheme of things. Sounds like you are more upset about losing too much contact than about the final half mile split. I think with one or two more competitive races to sharpen your instincts, you'll be where you want to be.

RunnerSam - Yes, I switched to from miles to kms. There are a host of reasons.

1) When I returned from my one really serious running injury in 2012 (multiple stress fractures in the pubic ramus), I logged my training in kms at the advice of my orthopedist, who was also an athlete. He said I would be less likely to overreach or rush back too quickly if I counted in kms versus miles and he was right. It was mentally satisfying to see 50kms for a week after a few months' training, even if that meant a mere 31 miles. It kept me in check. For my build this year, I want to similarly keep myself "in check."

2) My daily pace is roughly 5:00/km, so it is also more convenient to go out for a 50 minute run and call it 10km, or a 75 minute run and call it 15km than it is to do the "miles math." As you will see next week, I am also going to start implementing a lot of doubles, and it is easier for me mentally to justify a 4km second run than a 2.5 mile run. Don't ask me why, it just is.

3) The types of workouts I have planned for myself this summer are also more "km-friendly" than "miles-friendly." Things like 8 x 600m/600m, or 6 x 1km with 600m recovery jogs, or 10 x 1km with 400m recovery jogs, or 5km/4km/3km/2km/1km cutdowns with 1km recovery jogs. They work more neatly to me than the mile equivalent workouts.

In short, I am insane and just need to implement something different to mix-up my training...