Is Caster Semenya's testosterone level in terms of standard deviation the equivalent of a man being more than 22 feet tall?

If she were XX, yeah. But she's just an average boy inside a girl's skin. The "over 22 feet tall!" is the difference between the sexes.

Most things in nature follow a normal distribution , so I think it's very fair to use that.

Yao Ming was already something like 7’ 6”. So she’s got maybe 3x the testosterone of an average woman. Big whoop.

This reference:

https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/83/4/1312/2865543

Says premenopausal levels in healthy women are (1.20 +/- 0.69 nmol/L) (mean +/- std dev)

If 1 standard deviation is 0.69 nmol/L then the difference between 1.2 and 5 is just (5-1.2)/0.69 = 5.5 standard deviations.

Data is given in top left corner of table 2.

Well the thread title is rather misleading as it can easily be read as meaning that Caster has way more testosterone than the average man.

The mistake he made is shown here:

"Results: The serum testosterone level in women with no acne, hirsutism, or menstrual dysfunction was 14.1 &#45 0.9 ng/dL (mean &#45 standard error of the mean) (95% confidence interval [CI] = 12.4 to 15.8)."

He's using the *standard error*, not the *standard deviation*, of the data. They're different things. The standard error is the standard deviation of the mean of the dataset -- it varies with the number of measurements you make.

(Sorry that's from his first reference: https://journals.aace.com/doi/abs/10.4158/EP.5.6.322)

From the second reference he's using these numbers:

Total testosterone (pg/ml)

 Mean (SD*) 209 (20.6) 210 (19.2) 223 (20.7)

 Median (25th–75th percentiles) 199 (131–299) 209 (135–297) 221 (142–312)

Even though it says Mean (SD), I think it really means the standard error (or "standard deviation of the mean"). So the SD here is an uncertainty estimate of the mean, not the standard deviation.

Look at the percentiles -- 131 to 299. There's no way the standard deviation is 20 if the 25th and 75th percentiles are 80 away from the mean.

Sorry I think he just misinterpreted the references. You can calculate a 5 standard deviation basketball player :) Something like 8 feet tall?

Second reference:

https://academic.oup.com/aje/article/153/3/256/80402

One can speculate as to the longevity of this individual.

You are officially a slack-jawed gawker.

Rojo is a 22feet tall idiot, assuming a normal distribution of course.

And of course the height analogy isn't fair because she isn't able to make use of the testosterone in her system. Even if 8 feet tall seems crazy, remember that most of it doesn't actually help her "height" -- maybe she's like a really tall basketball player with really short arms.

Changing the analysis still yields some statistical interesting results:

With sample size of 271 and standard error of mean of .9, you can determine the actual standard deviation. (standard error of mean is equal to standard deviation / square root of sample size)

Standard deviation = (271)^.5 * .9 = 14.81 ng/dl

So the IAAF limit would be 8.77 SD's above the mean still using this new number.

I.e. 144-14.1 = # above * 14.81 --> 8.77

Statman Caruthers wrote:

Yao Ming was already something like 7’ 6”. So she’s got maybe 3x the testosterone of an average woman. Big whoop.

So how does that compare with 22' tall?

Reference article:

https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/99/11/4328/2836760

This data is from 2011 World Championships. The median, minimum and maximum values of T-values for DSD women who competed was 18.3 (15.6–29.3) nmol/L. At minimum, this puts Caster Semenya's testosterone level at 15.6 nmol/l.

So looking back at revised mean and standard deviation from the first paper, let's compare:

Mean = 14.1 ng/dl

Standard Deviation = 14.81 ng/dl

Minimum T-level for DSD women = 15.6 nmol/l = 449.9352 ng/dl

So, 449.93 = 14.1 + X * 14.81

X = Number of Standard Deviation's from mean highest T-level for DSD women = 29.42

Going back to the height example, 5'10" + 4 * 29.42 = 187.71 inches = 15.64 feet tall

It is not the T levels. Semenya's T is the equivalent of a 75 year old man at best.

The fact is there are more differences in XY sex development compared to XX than just T levels. Not just morphological, but in general outlook and killer instinct. The last is why Semenya wins so easily, being more inclined to physical dominance.

Additionally if you look at the maximum T-level observed of 29.3 nmol/l = 845.0706 ng/dl, the results are even more extreme.

That would be equivalent to:

845.07 = 14.1 + X * 14.81 --> X = 56.1087

Height comparison = 70 + 56.1087 * 4 = 294.43 inches = 24.53 feet tall

Yeah weve seen the 400 threads on letsrun insulting semenya over and over, and the letsrun community clearly agrees with you on these sensational and invasive stories.

Yes she has high testosterone, she lost the appeal, now stop talking about how she has high testosterone.

just leave her alone