Senior here, high 10:30s 2 mile. Other pr’s include 4:55 mile, 2:11 800 (raced once this season), and 17:4x 5k. Emailed a coach about walk-on standards and he told me high 4:10s and high 9:20s.
Other relevant details:
I’m 5’10, 150 lbs. Most mileage I’ve ever done is 40. Once I graduate I plan to ramp that up (safely) maybe to 55-65 mpw. Wondering how some of you think I should go about attempting this, and yes I recognize this is lofty. Hopefully the LR community can help a guy out.
Start running a bunch more. Do short and long tempo runs that are moderately hard, but within yourself. Do short reps or hill sprints or both, to stay in touch with faster stuff. Do this for a while. Good luck.
walkonhopeful wrote:
Senior here, high 10:30s 2 mile. Other pr’s include 4:55 mile, 2:11 800 (raced once this season), and 17:4x 5k. Emailed a coach about walk-on standards and he told me high 4:10s and high 9:20s.
Other relevant details:
I’m 5’10, 150 lbs. Most mileage I’ve ever done is 40. Once I graduate I plan to ramp that up (safely) maybe to 55-65 mpw. Wondering how some of you think I should go about attempting this, and yes I recognize this is lofty. Hopefully the LR community can help a guy out.
Uh you don't. It's way too late. Look into joining the club team in college.
This will likely take several years. Set smaller goals along the way and build mileage carefully. Try to find a group to run with as well as a coach or mentor who can guide you.
I think the issue is you're starting at too low a point. I ran 10:19 as a FR and got down to 9:07 in college. 10:40 is an indicator of low talent level. Now, I'm not saying you can't get to 9:20, but be prepared for up to 110 mile weeks, and most at 80+.
Weird our PR's and mileage are practically identical lol.
Don't expect to take one year and magically have the fitness to become a decent-level walk on. You will need several years of training and may only be able to compete for one season, if at all. However, if you can find a good source to base your training off of and properly ramp up mileage, maybe you could hit these times in an open meet or something.
Best of luck to you!
winnr1 wrote:
Weird our PR's and mileage are practically identical lol.
Don't expect to take one year and magically have the fitness to become a decent-level walk on. You will need several years of training and may only be able to compete for one season, if at all. However, if you can find a good source to base your training off of and properly ramp up mileage, maybe you could hit these times in an open meet or something.
Best of luck to you!
Funny enough, my coach has dropped in a couple comments on your “becoming mediocre” thread and we talk about your progress every once in a while.
Find an average d3 team that will take you. It will be much more fulfilling.
D3 is slow wrote:
Find an average d3 team that will take you. It will be much more fulfilling.
^ This. We have practically the same PR's and several D3/NAIA coaches I have reached out to have responded that they would gladly take me onto their teams. It never hurts to just shoot the coach an e-mail (which I am guessing you already know having emailed the coach of a clearly high-level school).
Also, small world with the thread thing lol. Glad to see that people can find that thread relevant to their own running.
I have a different perspective: start training for real. Ramp up your mileage to 80+ by July, and hold it through October. Find a few road race 5ks and 10ks or open college XC races (ideal) to compete in the fall. December and January, shoot for 90-100mpw.
Also, once you're at the school, ask the coach if there's a tryout, or if there's an open meet you can run. Perhaps if you can beat guys on the team, he may have a change in heart.
Here's a good workout you should do once per week:
5M easy run, end at track, or large grass area.
8x100m at goal 400m pace (should be 52 for you, so about 13") with 300m jog recovery. Barefoot.
2M cool down. Barefoot if possible.
That workout alone is 9miles and will develop your speed, stamina and physical strength.
Look into Hurdle Hip mobility exercises, and also Coach Jay Johnson's lunge matrix and core routines.
Training books to get you started:
I always liked this one, but it's slightly dated and pricey now.
collecollege wrote:
I think the issue is you're starting at too low a point. I ran 10:19 as a FR and got down to 9:07 in college. 10:40 is an indicator of low talent level. Now, I'm not saying you can't get to 9:20, but be prepared for up to 110 mile weeks, and most at 80+.
Don't be so full of yourself. Here's a few guys who did not break 10 minutes for 3200m or two miles in high school: 1) Frank Shorter, 2) Dick Beardsley & 3) Steve Holman.
Outlaw wrote:
I have a different perspective: start training for real. Ramp up your mileage to 80+ by July, and hold it through October. Find a few road race 5ks and 10ks or open college XC races (ideal) to compete in the fall. December and January, shoot for 90-100mpw.
Jeez just wack the man's legs with a bag of rocks why don't you?
OP don't progress this fast or you will likely get injured, if I were you I would be thinking more in the 55-60ish range for the first summer base phase (maybe by July) and just going from there while at the same time listening to your body.
I do think the rest of his advice is solid though, disclaimer being I am clearly not a coach.
How long have you been running for? That's a crucial factor for determining how much room for improvement you might have.
If your senior year has been your introduction to running, then a 9:20 2-mile might be possible with a gradual ramping up of training, in both duration and intensity, over the next few years.
On the other hand, if you've been running since freshman or sophomore year and only have 10:40/4:55/17:40 to show for it, then a 9:20 seems doubtful. Talent -or lack thereof- would have shown itself by now. Not trying to be discouraging here, just realistic.
I finished high school with a 9:50 2-mile, after three years at 50-60 mpw under a knowledgeable, encouraging coach who ran a successful and supportive program. I never got near 9:20 after high school (caveat was that I focused on longer distances in college and beyond, but still...)
EPO and doping, you can improve tremendously at 30 years old, imagine what it can do before you hit 20!
winnr1 wrote:
Jeez just wack the man's legs with a bag of rocks why don't you?
Hahahaha, good point. If he's running 50mpw, 70 at the end of July seems reasonable.
My statements based on a few assumptions:
-poor high school coaching and major lack of conditioning
-modest athletic ability or history with other sport (maybe he was a wrestler or baseball player until 10th grade?)
-18 years old, season at end and motivated= Time on his side to put in lots of work and recover.
I was in a similar situation, with only running under 4:50 for 1600 4-5 times, 10:27 3200, and 17:06 3M flat xc. NAIA coach told me I wasn't good enough to make his team. (The NAIA! Can you believe that?!) 2 years later on starting line of NAIA championships, individual qualifier. I gave the kid the same advice that was given to me and worked for me. I'm also the type who will grunt it out and work hard, and I think a guy like this who is trying to meet the standards will succeed. Sometimes the late bloomers have big surprises.
PS kid: eat lots of good protein. Grilled chicken, peanut butter and eggs are your friend.
I like the idea of finding other schools/ coaches as others have said.
Try to find a guy in the last 10 years who has made this type of improvement. Check the thousands of college runners who break 15 minutes and Inwill bet that 99% ran faster than 10:20 in high school. If the hundreds who break 14 minutes, 99% ran under 9:30 in high school. Sure you will point out the 1% but that is the exception, not the rule. There is a 99% chance that this kid only runs 15:30 in college.
walkonhopeful wrote:
Senior here, high 10:30s 2 mile. Other pr’s include 4:55 mile, 2:11 800 (raced once this season), and 17:4x 5k. Emailed a coach about walk-on standards and he told me high 4:10s and high 9:20s.
Other relevant details:
I’m 5’10, 150 lbs. Most mileage I’ve ever done is 40. Once I graduate I plan to ramp that up (safely) maybe to 55-65 mpw. Wondering how some of you think I should go about attempting this, and yes I recognize this is lofty. Hopefully the LR community can help a guy out.
It's impossible to know what your individual progression could like like. The D3 suggestions on this board are good, as is upping your mileage. But, if you are adamant about D1, you should start by getting your mileage up to 70 mpw. That is more doable than 100 mpw and hardly an outlier for a senior in hs/frosh in college. Don't neglect the long run, which could be up to 15 miles in your case at 70 mpw and done progression style. Check out some of Jay Johnson's stuff. 9:20 might be out of reach in the next year without attempting some outlandish training, but, if you keep progressing, maybe it's a two-year goal, if, for example, you survive 70 mpw and then can up it to 80-90 mpw the following year. Where most kids run into problems is by rushing the training. Think LONG-TERM.
Should I do doubles? Should my workouts be a tempo and a longer interval session along with hills every once in a while?
Outlaw wrote:
winnr1 wrote:
Jeez just wack the man's legs with a bag of rocks why don't you?
Hahahaha, good point. If he's running 50mpw, 70 at the end of July seems reasonable.
My statements based on a few assumptions:
-poor high school coaching and major lack of conditioning
-modest athletic ability or history with other sport (maybe he was a wrestler or baseball player until 10th grade?)
-18 years old, season at end and motivated= Time on his side to put in lots of work and recover.
I was in a similar situation, with only running under 4:50 for 1600 4-5 times, 10:27 3200, and 17:06 3M flat xc. NAIA coach told me I wasn't good enough to make his team. (The NAIA! Can you believe that?!) 2 years later on starting line of NAIA championships, individual qualifier. I gave the kid the same advice that was given to me and worked for me. I'm also the type who will grunt it out and work hard, and I think a guy like this who is trying to meet the standards will succeed. Sometimes the late bloomers have big surprises.
PS kid: eat lots of good protein. Grilled chicken, peanut butter and eggs are your friend.
I like the idea of finding other schools/ coaches as others have said.
While I agree with most of what you said, I don't know it running 80 mpw is a good idea anytime soon.
walkonhopeful wrote:
Should I do doubles? Should my workouts be a tempo and a longer interval session along with hills every once in a while?
Well for summer you should focus on building a base phase, I would consider something like this
Sun: rest/30 mins easy
Mon: AM: 1 mile warm up, 4/6x100m strides, 30 minute tempo run and then a long cooldown.
PM- 30-45 mins cycle/swim
Tue: 75 mins easy
Wed: 60 minutes easy + 4/6x100m strides
Thu: AM: 2 mile warm up/cool down, 60 minute fartlek (keep it aerobic intensity)
PM- 30/45 mins cycle/swim
Fri: 60 minutes easy
Sat: 90/120 minute long run (start at 90, get longer as summer progresses)
This should total out to around 50/55 miles and you can increase the time as the summer progresses and maybe throw in an extra double here and there.
Also maybe consider a road race mid summer and one at the end of summer to gauge fitness.