Do you agree or disagree? In our minds, it all depends on the weather, mainly the wind.
https://www.wired.com/story/how-the-boston-marathon-messes-with-runners-to-slow-them-down/
Do you agree or disagree? In our minds, it all depends on the weather, mainly the wind.
https://www.wired.com/story/how-the-boston-marathon-messes-with-runners-to-slow-them-down/
Finally someone gets it right about the wind. The wind is so misunderstood by the public. Runners last year think it wasn't so bad because they started in corral 7 with the whole course to draft off of. Front corrals not so much. 2:39 winning women's time says it all.
Yes, I agree with the article. PB at Boston is like playing Roulette.
It's almost all downhill and point to point course. As long as the wind isn't too bad and it isn't 100°, one can easily PB on the course.
Downhill point to point wrote:
It's almost all downhill and point to point course. As long as the wind isn't too bad and it isn't 100°, one can easily PB on the course.
I pretty much agree. The one time I ran Boston the weather was good and I ran PR by several minutes. I will say, though, at the time I lived and trained in a relatively flat part of the country and did not do any hill training prior to Boston. Even though I ran well the last 3-4 miles were pretty rough as the Newton "hills" took a lot out of my legs. I do think the part of the race where those hills fall make the course a bit tougher if you're not a good hill runner or don't train for hills late in the race. It's not really a race I would choose if I was looking to PR now though. CIM, Chicago, Berlin, or London would be a better choice for an experineced runner looking to run fast.
The course is not eligible for records, it does not comply with the IAAF rules. You cannot set a PB on it. Basically, it is not a marathon.
You can’t set World Records at the Boston Marathon, but you can set your personal best anywhere. There are no rules for personal best, unless you arbitrarily set your own rules for your PB. Some people have downhill PB’s, Trail PB’s, Road PB’s, which I think is fine to keep you motivated to do your best on race day and put positive spin on your performances. Personal Best times are yours. The B.A.A., IAAF, and not even Let’s Run can steal them.
AverageJoesGym262 wrote:
You can’t set World Records at the Boston Marathon, but you can set your personal best anywhere. There are no rules for personal best, unless you arbitrarily set your own rules for your PB. Some people have downhill PB’s, Trail PB’s, Road PB’s, which I think is fine to keep you motivated to do your best on race day and put positive spin on your performances. Personal Best times are yours. The B.A.A., IAAF, and not even Let’s Run can steal them.
+1. People get to decide what they consider their PR/PB. Although common courtesy calls them to give others a heads up if it’s at Boston in a tailwind year, at a Revel (downhill) race, etc.
Good for PBs, not so good for PRs.
The most salient point in the article is that "wily veterans" can do well. Assuming the wind is not a major factor, the key to the course itself is not pummeling your quads on the downhills in the first few miles. The pace feels so easy aerobically, it's easy to get sucked out and hammer the legs. The Runners Connect Boston Marathon Pace Calculator calls for the first two miles to be significantly slower than goal pace, despite being net downhill miles. Tough to do when you are charged up and feeling good.
Downhill point to point wrote:
It's almost all downhill and point to point course. As long as the wind isn't too bad and it isn't 100°, one can easily PB on the course.
I never ran a marathon course as easy as Boston. However, my friend and training partner did once, and said it was the easiest marathon course that he'd ever run.
What did he think about Boston was easy? Or had he run it multiple times?
Who is Nicholas Thompson?
What has he run or who has he coached that would warrant his opinion having any value?
Hello! I’m the editor in chief at Wired. Never coached anyone. Am slower than most people on these boards. But the article about Boston is based on interviews with some pretty smart folks and a couple past winners of the race.
The last long running piece I did—on my efforts to run a marathon in less than “two hours plus my age in minutes”—is here:
https://www.wired.com/story/aging-marathoner-tries-to-run-fast-after-40/
NicholasThompson wrote:
Hello! I’m the editor in chief at Wired. Never coached anyone. Am slower than most people on these boards. But the article about Boston is based on interviews with some pretty smart folks and a couple past winners of the race.
Quite frankly I am appalled that you have the gall to openly post here with your woefully inadequate credentials.
I read your piece on "running" a marathon in less than two hours+age and nearly hurled my phone in disgust. Unless you happen to be ten years old, I cannot take seriously any of the conclusions or information contained within that hobby jogger trifle you cobbled together with a guy who knows "math" and some losers from "Nike" and "Naomi's fashion designer".
I will not be bothered to investigate further, but I presume you fall similarly short of the required $500k per annum+supermodel wife which are also essential to contributing to this forum. Should you provide photographic proof to the contrary, I may be willing to concede the final point.
You will find good company in the Runner's World forums -- I recommend you peddle your wares there.
Good day, sir!
NicholasThompson wrote:
Hello! I’m the editor in chief at Wired. Never coached anyone. Am slower than most people on these boards. But the article about Boston is based on interviews with some pretty smart folks and a couple past winners of the race.
The last long running piece I did—on my efforts to run a marathon in less than “two hours plus my age in minutes”—is here:
https://www.wired.com/story/aging-marathoner-tries-to-run-fast-after-40/
This was a SOLID read, congrats on the PR. I love the point about running fast throughout the week. More mileage, mostly always helps, especially for us non elites, training the engine pays off. If you're a time crunched parent, tossing in some intervals really does give you a serious ROI, if executed properly.
NicholasThompson wrote:
Hello! I’m the editor in chief at Wired. Never coached anyone. Am slower than most people on these boards. But the article about Boston is based on interviews with some pretty smart folks and a couple past winners of the race.
The last long running piece I did—on my efforts to run a marathon in less than “two hours plus my age in minutes”—is here:
https://www.wired.com/story/aging-marathoner-tries-to-run-fast-after-40/
Got it.
Thank you Mr. Editor. That’s what I thought.
Ran my PR in 2014 so of course I am biased and happy with the course/weather that day.
I think Boston has the worst set up logistically and really have never done well there.
Waking up at 6 am to wait in line for a 45 minute bus ride followed by sitting in a cold, wet field takes a toll before the race even starts.
I am always advising people that Boston is not set up to run their best race. If everything works out OK that's great, but aiming for a PB should not be the main goal (some people keep 'Boston PBs' separate from 'lifetime PBs"). Weather, wind and hills are the most obvious reasons but I think there are a few more subtle factors at play.
- The logistics of race morning. Getting up really early, busing out to the start, hanging around the athlete village for hours, and being in the corrals for 30-45mins before starting are all less than ideal.
- The 10am start (or later if not in Wave 1) is also something that most weekend warrior runners are not used to. Most people run earlier or later in the day for the vast majority of their training. Consider 3hr marathoner - a 'normal' marathon starting at 7 or 8am has them finished by 11am; at Boston that same 3hr run is between 10/10:25/10:50am to 1-2pm, which usually has the most heat, wind and intense sunlight of the day.
- The runners I coach all live and train in winter climates. Unless we get a really early spring there is little to no heat acclimation. Even a normal April day feels overly hot and unusual.
These little things taken on their own may not amount to much, but taken together they become something significant. Some things can be practiced or dealt with (ie. planning some long runs for later in the day and rehearsing race morning) but for many race day is the first time all of these variables are thrown at them and it can be enough of a tipping point to make PBs rare...even if they are in prime physical shape to run their best.
Boston Best - 2:44:16
Personal Best - 2:25:17
So, Boston is 19 minutes slow.
(Nevermind that the times were run 5.5 years apart and the Boston performance was a 4 minute PR)
In all seriousness, this doesn’t need to be a discussion. Boston is not a PR course. Plain and simple. If you get a strong tailwind, a PR is possible. Maybe even likely with a 2011 like typhoon. That would be true on most point-to-point courses with reasonable elevation changes though.