How to deal with lactic acid?

Are the times you are supposed to be hitting reasonable?

The training and dumping the acid (not lactic acid) and the lactate drive the response to better deal with it.

Should've ran more during your winter base phase.

Jog in between your reps, by keeping your respiration rate up you'll prevent the build-up of lactic acid. In races, focus on keeping your breathing strong.

The best way to deal with lactic acid is the Cori cycle.

helpontrainings wrote:

Whenever we do pretty fast 200m and 300m repeats at practice, by the 8th rep or so my legs just go completely lactic. I hit the 80-90m mark and I just can’t push my legs just feel too heavy.

This also happens to me in races like the last 250m or so of the 800m and of course the last 100m of the 400m.

Whenever the lactate hits, my form (which isn’t that good in general) just falls apart and my arms aren’t swinging as fast or as high and I look like I’m hobbling.

What can I do to train how my legs handle lactic so I can effectively push myself better?

You don't You train so that you don't produce as much.

People have this erroneous thought that some sort of magic happens that allows you to blast through it.

Luv2Run wrote:

Are the times you are supposed to be hitting reasonable?

The training and dumping the acid (not lactic acid) and the lactate drive the response to better deal with it.

Yeah I wouldn't say they're too bad. Most of the 200m's and 300m's are at about a little less than race pace effort but the recoveries are pretty short like today it was sprint 200m jog 200m start again for about 10 reps. I don't usually start timing my workouts until later in the season.

Ok, so how do I train it.

gahagand wrote:

Jog in between your reps, by keeping your respiration rate up you'll prevent the build-up of lactic acid. In races, focus on keeping your breathing strong.

I usually jog in between reps either way but I still feel the build-up. But it's definitely especially bad if I have a walking recovery. Race-wise, the last 200m of an 800m is just killer. I get passed by most people there and it's just a whole crap-fest.

best option wrote:

The best way to deal with lactic acid is the Cori cycle.

What's the Cori Cycle?

So much misinformation. How about starting here.

https://running.pocketoutdoormedia.com/six-lies-you-were-taught-about-lactic-acid_29432

Then here.

https://running.pocketoutdoormedia.com/the-lactic-acid-myths_7938

It’s all about calcium! At least this decade. Maybe next decade we will redefine muscle fatigue again!

https://ergoweb.com/muscle-fatigue-calcium-leaks-not-lactic-acid-thought-to-cause-decreased-performance-and-injury/

Even Wiki is up to date!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_fatigue

Ok look....it doesn’t matter if you blame it on lactate, lactic acid, calcium or grandmas tater salad....is the changing definition and cause of muscular fatigue really going to change how you train?

Step 1: I run a workout in which my legs “burn”....I “taste pennies”. It’s really hard to run after chewing on Lincolns.

Step 2: SAID Principle. My body will respond by making changes to better handle that stimulus. I repeat that stimulus again and again and again in order to better prepare my body for THAT SPECIFIC STIMULUS.

Step 3: I change the stimulus so my body has to make another change. This is called PROGRESSIVE OVERLOAD and lacking it is why you don’t improve.

We make training harder than it is. Remove the dogma and the the unimportant nuances. Define what you need to do to meet the challenges of your race or group of races. Train in order to meet those challenges.

Alan

helpontrainings wrote:

gahagand wrote:

Jog in between your reps, by keeping your respiration rate up you'll prevent the build-up of lactic acid. In races, focus on keeping your breathing strong.

I usually jog in between reps either way but I still feel the build-up. But it's definitely especially bad if I have a walking recovery. Race-wise, the last 200m of an 800m is just killer. I get passed by most people there and it's just a whole crap-fest.

So what % of your training is at 800m pace or faster? What % of your training is running 800m in a fatigued state? How has your training progressed in volume, frequency and duration over the season? The year? The last 2 years? 5 years? Decade? It could also be pacing. The 800m is a bear. A second here and there makes a huge difference at the end. I just think if you are constantly getting rolled the last 200m it’s because you’re a second or 2 too fast the first lap.

Alan

It's always going to be called lactic acid, even though it's not actually that. The sooner you accept that the less irate you will be about incorrect terminology.

The solution is to work on your lactate threshold.

Runningart2004 wrote:

helpontrainings wrote:

I usually jog in between reps either way but I still feel the build-up. But it's definitely especially bad if I have a walking recovery. Race-wise, the last 200m of an 800m is just killer. I get passed by most people there and it's just a whole crap-fest.

So what % of your training is at 800m pace or faster? What % of your training is running 800m in a fatigued state? How has your training progressed in volume, frequency and duration over the season? The year? The last 2 years? 5 years? Decade? It could also be pacing. The 800m is a bear. A second here and there makes a huge difference at the end. I just think if you are constantly getting rolled the last 200m it’s because you’re a second or 2 too fast the first lap.

Alan

It probably is a little bit of both. I usually have 3 workouts a week and 2 easier run days, and 1 long run day. 1 workout I like to focus on speed so about 800m race pace or a little faster with 200m's. 2nd, I like to focus on speed endurance so about 400m's and ladders usually do it. And my last workout is some good ol' CV 1k's followed by some strides. It probably is pacing since I go out in like 58 and come back in about 1:05-1:06 depending on how badly I feel. I wouldn't say much of my training deals with lactic and being fatigued but the short rest for most of my workouts definitely makes it feel pretty race-like at times.

helpontrainings wrote:

It probably is pacing since I go out in like 58 and come back in about 1:05-1:06 depending on how badly I feel..

Ya think?

helpontrainings wrote:

best option wrote:

The best way to deal with lactic acid is the Cori cycle.

What's the Cori Cycle?

It's a little trick where you use your liver to convert lactate into glucose, which can then be used for energy by your muscles.

Runningart2004 wrote:

It’s all about calcium! At least this decade. Maybe next decade we will redefine muscle fatigue again!

Alan

Nothing has changed. We have known for a long time that acidity in the blood inhibits the muscles use of calcium for contraction.

Nobody is going around (not saying you are either) lactate causes acidity.

I was pretty sure we all knew here that H+ caused the acidity in blood and the release was linear with lactate. We can measure lactate so we can know how much H+ is being built up.

helpontrainings wrote:

Aerobic Beasts wrote:

You don't You train so that you don't produce as much.

People have this erroneous thought that some sort of magic happens that allows you to blast through it.

Ok, so how do I train it.

You train sensibly instead of heroically. The more you hurt yourself in training, the more it hurts in a race. The trick is to hurt less and go faster, not hurt more and go slower.

Every true 800m runner slows down in the last 100m, but you can't fight the acidity, that just makes it worse. So don't even try to do this in training, it's counterproductive.