Need advice on 5K training plan.

Chun-Li wrote:

Good day to the community here.

I come from one of the countries in South East Asia and only started running 1.5 years ago. I run the 5000m, and clocked a best of 17:53 sometime last year. Not impressive, but I am looking to improve my times. Currently without a coach.

I am currently doing 120 Km weeks of only easy runs to build my base.

Can anyone provide insights on what my next step should be in improving my 5000m performance? What kind of weekly training program should I be structuring and the paces recommended?

120 km (75 miles!!) is WAY too much for someone running 1.5 years and improving. You are limiting your own progression and potential by running so much at this young ("running") age.

You should be able to improve at around 45-55 mpw at your level. Doing more, or running harder, doesn't always mean it's better. Running doesn't work like that.

1) Stop doing only easy runs at any "phase". Always include tempo, CV and striders. ALWAYS! Except maybe the one week after a season break..

2) Cut your mileage to 45-55 mpw and bring back a lot of quality.

3) Think long-term - cut back that mileage, get to sub 17 first on 50 mpw, then sub 16 on 60 mpw and so on. If you already need to fire up 80 mpw just to get to sub 17, you successfully limited yourself in how far you can ultimately go. I mean where do you wanna end up with? 130 mpw? You can't just always increase it to get faster.

Standard plan:

First you need to do a race or TT. That 17:53 from last year is OLD - are you in better shape now? How much better?

Then we can help you with a plan and rough paces you should be running on your days/workouts.

I agree with what LateRunnerPhil says regarding your mileage. 120km per week is a lot for someone only running 1.5 years. you would do well to scale that back to no more than 80km per week.

each week you want to be doing a long run of a little more than an hour, say, up to 80 minutes at an easy pace.

you need two or three easy runs of 30 - 40 minutes duration at around 5:00 - 5:10 per km pace.

you could use one session each week of long intervals. start at around 800m and lengthen them as you feel comfortable, at around 4:15 per km pace. so you have something like 4 x 800m 3:24 with a 2:00 recovery. work on reducing the recovery and when you get it down to 50% of the run time, lengthen the distance from 800m to 1000m, or add more of them. when you add volume to the session, go back to the 2:00 recovery and start over on reducing the recovery. the pace of these is around 85% your 5000m race pace and you don't need to be doing them any faster than that. you want volume with short recoveries.

you need one session at something closer to your race pace, around 3:50 per km pace. start with 8 x 300m in 70 seconds with a 3:00 recovery. when you can handle this comfortably and are recovering well from all your training, make them longer, so you go from 8 x 300m to 6 x 400m in 90 seconds with a 3:30 recovery.

you will also need a rest day. so a basic week might look like this:

sun long run

mon rest day

tue long intervals

wed easy run

thur easy run

fri short intervals

sat easy run or rest

cheers.

Everything you need to know is right here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wpm07-BGJnE

Thank you so much for the lengthy reply.

But I am just curious and maybe not as knowledgeable behind the science and everything. But if the training you have recommended do not practice @ race pace or slightly below race pace, how is it that one is able to run faster doing such workouts? :)

Not trying to doubt your r knowledge. Just curious!

Thank you so much for the reply. I understand the idea of limiting my growth if I am already running such high mileage. Never taught of that, will keep that in mind!

Cheers!

Chun-Li said: how is it that one is able to run faster doing such workouts? :)

there is a perception that to run faster you have to run faster. whilst this is not wrong, it is not nearly so important for someone who has been running a short while and is running 17:00 for 5000m. at the level you are at you will make a surprising amount of improvement by optimising your aerobic system, improving your capillary network, increasing your oxygen uptake, increasing your enzyme activity and a host of other adaptations that you can make without putting yourself under the stress of very fast running. too much stress causes injuries.

it is also important to remember that training is a progression; like climbing stairs. one step at a time, and after many small steps you eventually reach your goal. the sessions I have suggested should not be seen as the ultimate objective but a step in the right direction. after doing this sort of work for three months or so you will be ready to start introducing some non-running training, work on your core, some strength work, some running drills, and when that has bedded down you can start on easy-paced fartlek work, introduce the idea of doing strides at the ends of runs, then later you can introduce speed work and hill sprints. all of these things can eventually be incorporated into your training, but you have to start at the beginning and take things one step at a time.

good question. well asked.

cheers.

Alright. I was just wondering how would one be able to run a race at faster than training paces if the musculatures are not adapted to running at that intensity. But yes, I get your point.

So would you say the above plan of running 800m and extending the distance, or this 12 week plan you have posted in another thread a day ago a better one?

"A 12 week plan, leading to a 3k or 5k (or even mile) around 16 flat / 9:15 / 4:40 could be:

12 weeks to race: 6x1000, 200m rest in 3:20 & 6x200 + 8k Tempo at MP & 6x30s hills

11 weeks to race: 6x1000, 200m rest in 3:20 & 5x300 + 9k Tempo at MP & 6x30s hills

10 weeks to race: 6x1000, 200m rest in 3:20 & 4x400 + 10k Tempo at MP & 6x30 hills

9 weeks to race: 6x1000, 200m rest in 3:20 & 6x200 + Tune-Up Race or TT

8 weeks to race: 6x1000, 200m rest in 3:20 & 6x200 + 4x2000 in 3:30 & 4x400 (Threshold)

7 weeks to race: 6x1000, 200m rest in 3:20 & 5x300 + 12x400 in 3:05, 1 min rest (VO2MAX)

6 weeks to race: 6x1000, 200m rest in 3:20 & 4x400 + 8x600 in 3:05, 1.5 min rest (VO2MAX)

5 weeks to race: 6x1000, 200m rest in 3:20 & 6x200 + Tune-Up Race or TT

4 weeks to race: 6x1000, 200m rest in 3:20 & 5x300 + 6x800 in 3:05, 2.5 min rest (VO2MAX)

3 weeks to race: 6x1000, 200m rest in 3:20 & 400m TT + 4x2000 in 3:30 & 4x400 ( Threshold)

2 weeks to race: 5x1000, 400m rest in 3:20 & 600m TT + 3x2000 in 3:30 & 4x400 (Threshold)

Race week: 4x1000, 400m rest in 3:20 & 800m TT + RACE"

Of course, the paces would have to be adjusted to CV pace based on the Tinman calculator found online.

Chun-Li said: So would you say the above plan of running 800m and extending the distance, or this 12 week plan you have posted in another thread a day ago a better one?

that 12 week plan was not posted by me.

I would not write a 12 week plan.

I don't think it is necessary or even possible to progress every week. you progress to the next step only when you have stopped benefitting from what you are doing now. one step at a time.

other coaches have other ideas, and you are of course free to mix things up and choose elements from different training programs as you see fit.

those 1000m in 3:20 are too fast for you anyway. 1000m in 3:20 is 16:40 for 5000m.

cheers.

Oops my bad. That was posted by LateRunnerPhil. Got kinda mixed up cause you both were commenting on the other thread as well.

Hi LateRunnerPhil,

So would you consider the 12 week plan as posted above by you in another thread a good training plan?

Of course, the paces would have to be tuned down according to the Tinman calculator that can be found online.

"A 12 week plan, leading to a 3k or 5k (or even mile) around 16 flat / 9:15 / 4:40 could be:

12 weeks to race: 6x1000, 200m rest in 3:20 & 6x200 + 8k Tempo at MP & 6x30s hills

11 weeks to race: 6x1000, 200m rest in 3:20 & 5x300 + 9k Tempo at MP & 6x30s hills

10 weeks to race: 6x1000, 200m rest in 3:20 & 4x400 + 10k Tempo at MP & 6x30 hills

9 weeks to race: 6x1000, 200m rest in 3:20 & 6x200 + Tune-Up Race or TT

8 weeks to race: 6x1000, 200m rest in 3:20 & 6x200 + 4x2000 in 3:30 & 4x400 (Threshold)

7 weeks to race: 6x1000, 200m rest in 3:20 & 5x300 + 12x400 in 3:05, 1 min rest (VO2MAX)

6 weeks to race: 6x1000, 200m rest in 3:20 & 4x400 + 8x600 in 3:05, 1.5 min rest (VO2MAX)

5 weeks to race: 6x1000, 200m rest in 3:20 & 6x200 + Tune-Up Race or TT

4 weeks to race: 6x1000, 200m rest in 3:20 & 5x300 + 6x800 in 3:05, 2.5 min rest (VO2MAX)

3 weeks to race: 6x1000, 200m rest in 3:20 & 400m TT + 4x2000 in 3:30 & 4x400 ( Threshold)

2 weeks to race: 5x1000, 400m rest in 3:20 & 600m TT + 3x2000 in 3:30 & 4x400 (Threshold)

Race week: 4x1000, 400m rest in 3:20 & 800m TT + RACE"

I think Laterunnerphil and Cotton Shirt give great advice. As for the 12 week plan, it's a sold plan. Make sure you are running the two workouts at the correct effort level. Also, your easy run pace has to be easy.

Does the above plan for 5k training.its a 12 week right should I contanue 1 workout for the full week ?

le wang wrote:

Does the above plan for 5k training.its a 12 week right should I contanue 1 workout for the full week ?

Contact the magic JS coach.Will improve you fast.

Everything you need to know is right here:

https://www.runnersworld.com/advanced/a20806851/solving-the-5k-puzzle/