Daniels' Running Formula: Training Bible or Just Another Book?

Its a great book for the most part. I really love the pacing charts. They take a lot of the guess work at of what paces should be run. For beginning or younger runners it is great. Because it eliminates runs that don't have much benifit. However, for some runners it would not be a good method to follow because Daniels leans toward sub-max training. For runners who are used to running hard almost everyday, they won't see as much improvement when they switch to Daniels system. But I do think that runners who start with Daniels Method can fairly easily switch to a tougher method, such as Coe or Lydiard. Or if they are seeing enough improvement with Daniels system then they can stay with that.

I think it is great for all new runners.

There is no one book for everyone. Nothing against Daniels' book particularly, but different things work well for different people. Take some from his book, some from experience (as you get it), maybe read another book or two, talk to some folks, come up with what works for you.

[quote]Jesse wrote:

(SNIPPED) However, for some runners it would not be a good method to follow because Daniels leans toward sub-max training. For runners who are used to running hard almost everyday, they won't see as much improvement when they switch to Daniels system. (END QUOTE)

Interesting, I would argue that if someone is "training hard everyday" (whatever that means) would improve when more recovery is added. Rest/recovery is a critical component in training.

One cannot train "at max" everyday without something bad eventually happening.

Daniels philosophy is periodization. Also, for endurance runners I would say that most running should be below threshold or max.

Jack Daniels....ah how could i forget my time training under him....oh wait its pretty easy...jack's a great training coach...he knows how to train...very nice guy...but not the greatest people person...beyond that though...his book is really good....works well

What are you talking about?

I question whether you know him at all.

[quote]River runs red wrote:

Jack Daniels....ah how could i forget my time training under him....oh wait its pretty easy...jack's a great training coach...he knows how to train...very nice guy...but not the greatest people person...

Very technical and scientific but definetly not a bible. If you're looking for a bible, use Lydiard. Update his stuff with Daniel and Coe's books. All 3 emphasize periodization and have the same basic principals. Coe and Daniel's science back up what Lydiard has claimed all along. All 3 are worth a read though and you should add Running with the Buff's too to get a dose of Wetmore.

On the contrary, I think it is very readable especially when compared to Coe and Martin. It's a great guide for a beginning HS coach who wants a blueprint of how to get started, and I think the VDOT tables are useful at most any level. But at the higher levels, I believe athletes need to do more than what is listed in the Daniels training schedules.

Martin and Coe's Better Training for Distance Runners is an excellent text--in fact Martin used it the grad level exercise physiology class he taught.

It is a higher level than the others, but it gives you more information on the basic science as well.

I really like Dave Martin and had a class taught by him and love the book so I am a bit biased.

Believe the river-red, do you know him septic, I do. Ask & you will recieve info. Take your Daniel'sRF throw it down on your coffee table, if you have one, that is his personality. The book is good, but where is the speach about aerobic development? JTD is what I call a workout specialist. He is not a coach.

I own a copy and it is a worthwhile book. You should read it mainly to understand the science behind what you are doing, and what kind of workouts will create the various adaptations.

jason

JTD is what I call a workout specialist. He is not a coach.[/quote]

THANK YOU! I am not the only 1 to say that! It's true though sadly...oh well who cares...all u need is his workouts not him thank god

Yes he was my coach for over a year. I have no idea what your relationship was like with Jack, but I personally never had any complaints along those lines. Great personality...he was a wonderful coach, helped me improve a great deal, and is a personal friend.

inquiring

Believe the river-red, do you know him septic, I do. Ask & you will recieve info. Take your Daniel'sRF throw it down on your coffee table, if you have one, that is his personality. The book is good, but where is the speach about aerobic development? JTD is what I call a workout specialist. He is not a coach.

I was coached by Jack in college. I found him to be a wealth of knowledge if only you asked him. He is a quiet, contemplative man who, often, will only provide his input/opinion when it is asked for. To this day, I don't know why he coached Div.III when he could have coached virtually anywhere in the country though. Whilst I didn't run that well in college under him (mostly due to injuries and hangovers), I learned an immense amount.

Part of the reason I went to Cortland was not to be a great runner (I am realistic), but to lay the foundations of being a great coach (a more achievable goal, I felt).

His book explains in 'plain English' some tricky physiological stuff that other books (e.g. Martun & Coe) treat as if you are in a grad-level Ex.Phys class. Daniels' book is far more user-friendly and readable.

I would recommend the book to any aspiring runner, especially marathoners. He recently told me he is working on a new edition of DRF.

Sickboy...when did u run at cortland? I used to run for jack there 2...kinda had the same probs. as u...(minus the hangover part) the injuries kinda killed me...so did going from a hs coach who was in your face alot/motivating you to well jack....

I really went to cortland for an education...but running was an xtra perk (plus my hs coach ran for him an liked his training)

Serious question... Why were JDs women's teams so great while his men's teams just OK? I don't mean to stir up a hornet's nest, but I always wondered if he's coaching both teams, why such a big difference in results?

*I followed D3 results from about '87 - '92... Maybe the men's team has improved recently.

Ya Jack coached both teams...jack never believed in recruiting..he always got girls to come an run for him cause they knew they'd get good...plus jack had this gift for finding girls that were so-so in hs an makin them all american in hs...i dunno exaclty...plus if u ever see D3 champs...the graet lakes an mid-west are just sick...we could never compete...jack also if u were goin places would give ya all the time in the world..if ur hurt or nothin..well he'd be polite..give ya workouts thats it...we sucked my last 2 years cause every1 grad. an well...our new AD was an utter asshole (this change was 2001) cortland's women are still good...but need a few more years

DougC & River runs red:

Jack said to me, "...better to know psych then physio..", & he meant it.

The reason why his Ladies teams do so well is because of Psychology not physiology. River, does the light go on in your head now? I was there... Let's just say he knows how to treat the women so they respond...not a mens coach at all. His book is very good, but not a mens coach. Want to know more..?

River, does the light go on in your head now?

Wow inquiring minds...thanks for the 'info' i'm 'so glad' you showed me the way, what do u want a medal?...i'll agree that w/ the women alot was more mind then matter..many of them never had good coaches in hs, jack just got them to train an think the right way

I was there...

Ya so was I an alot of other people...jack's a good training coach....

Want to know more..?[/quote]

Nah

Please excuse me, I overlooked the fact you had this topic covered so well.