Pacing is illegal in HS track right?

"Pacing" is a technical running term that most high school coaches are blissfully unaware of. The rule is probably the same as in college; the pacer is entered in the event, is allowed to finish but doesn't have to, and you can't pace if you are a lapped runner.

crumpline wrote:

Pacing was illegal everywhere, even after Bannister's 4 minute mile

Correct.

But it still happened, including during Bannister's mile.

There was no way to enforce it as it was subjective.

How can you tell someone they are not allowed to lead a race and then fall back?

And how do you DQ an entire field if a leader gets a cramp and doesn't finish?

And how can you determine if someone dropped out on purpose and faked an injury?

They threw their hands up and got rid of the anti-pacing rule.

But a pacer has to be entered and eligible to win.

I scratch my head at these events wear they put the word "Pacer" on the official pacers bibs.

I know they are instructed not to finish but they must be listed as entrants that can place.

Star wrote:

crumpline wrote:

Pacing was illegal everywhere, even after Bannister's 4 minute mile

Correct.

But it still happened, including during Bannister's mile.

There was no way to enforce it as it was subjective.

How can you tell someone they are not allowed to lead a race and then fall back?

And how do you DQ an entire field if a leader gets a cramp and doesn't finish?

And how can you determine if someone dropped out on purpose and faked an injury?

They threw their hands up and got rid of the anti-pacing rule.

But a pacer has to be entered and eligible to win.

I scratch my head at these events wear they put the word "Pacer" on the official pacers bibs.

I know they are instructed not to finish but they must be listed as entrants that can place.

I don't think it's as hard to identify pacers as you think it is. If they said, when it doubt throw them out, they would get rid of any pacing which is now illegal.

Also, I've been in races where the guys carrying the signs for pace groups were not entered, and people like Steve Magness have banditted races to pace runners they are coaching.

Technically according to NFHS track and field rules, as long as the person is officially entered in the event, then it is legal. Different states can have their own rules about it. So you would have to consult your State governing body.

I've only once seen a disqualification for pacing. And it was a clear violation, as it was a lapped runner deciding to pace the teammate. It was a bit sad, because the way the NCAA rule reads, both the pacing athlete and the paced athlete get DQed, and the lead athlete didn't ask his teammate to do it, and their coach was actually yelling at him to stop because he knew the rule, but the guy just kept going for a couple of laps, getting them both DQed.

Other than that, in 20 years of coaching I have seen maybe half a dozen "warnings" handed out to fans and/or teammates that were cheering a race on and ran along side a competitor for 10-20 meters, cheering. But never seen a DQ for that.

not that difficult wrote:

I don't think it's as hard to identify pacers as you think it is. If they said, when it doubt throw them out, they would get rid of any pacing which is now illegal.

Also, I've been in races where the guys carrying the signs for pace groups were not entered, and people like Steve Magness have banditted races to pace runners they are coaching.

Your first paragraph describes the first sub four mile, and they did not throw them out.

And everyone knew they were pacers.

For your second paragraph, i'm pretty sure that is not allowed.

But what do you mean " guys carrying the signs for pace groups were not entered"? The people on the vehicles?

The runners should be entered.

For Magness, are you talking about an XC race?

No way he should be allowed to bandit an XC race.

If it's a minor road race, no one is going to bother enforcing rules for something like that but it should not be allowed.

M.C. Confusing wrote:

I've only once seen a disqualification for pacing. And it was a clear violation, as it was a lapped runner deciding to pace the teammate. It was a bit sad, because the way the NCAA rule reads, both the pacing athlete and the paced athlete get DQed, and the lead athlete didn't ask his teammate to do it, and their coach was actually yelling at him to stop because he knew the rule, but the guy just kept going for a couple of laps, getting them both DQed.

Other than that, in 20 years of coaching I have seen maybe half a dozen "warnings" handed out to fans and/or teammates that were cheering a race on and ran along side a competitor for 10-20 meters, cheering. But never seen a DQ for that.

You described what happened in the 1992 Olympic 10,000m.

Everyone should watch this video:

Star wrote:

For Magness, are you talking about an XC race?

No way he should be allowed to bandit an XC race.

If it's a minor road race, no one is going to bother enforcing rules for something like that but it should not be allowed.

No, it was a road race. He had permission from the race director.

Pacing benefits everyone. I would thank the kid and coach for sacrificing a good runner for the greater cause. Real pacing is prohibited as has been pointed out. That means you can't pace after being lapped of if you are not in the race.

A meet official in my area has DQed people at XC races for parents or teammates running alongside for 100 meters mid-race. He also DQed a kid for pacing a teammate at a conference meet to a 1-2 finish but DQed him on the grounds of taunting or bad sportsmanship saying the kid was looking around when pacing and it upset the other kids.

Pacing should be illegal everywhere. All the time.

Real men aren't afraid to race.

2015 NFHS/MHSA Rules:

Rule 4, Section 6 Disqualification:

ART. 5

It is an unfair act when a competitor receives any assistance. Assistance includes:

a. Interference with another competitor.

b. Pacing by a teammate not in the race or persons not participating in the event.

https://cdn3.sportngin.com/attachments/document/0080/1966/NFHS_and_MHSA_Track_and_Field_Rules_-_Uniform__Jewelry_and_Disqualification_Rules.pdf

reader of the fine article wrote:

Star wrote:

For Magness, are you talking about an XC race?

No way he should be allowed to bandit an XC race.

If it's a minor road race, no one is going to bother enforcing rules for something like that but it should not be allowed.

No, it was a road race. He had permission from the race director.

In a road race, the race director can make any rules they want.

But the race couldn't be used as qualifying for another race governed by a federation.

If he had permission from the race director, all they had to do was give him a bib number for free, though and it's not officially banditing or illegal pacing.

Unless he comes off the course and back on at a different point.

The rules for are allowed pacing are pretty simple:

You can pace someone if you are entered as a competitor in the race, start at the beginning and follow the rules of the race as the race progresses.

The main exception is that you cannot pace someone that has lapped you or is at a different point in the race.

(Come to think of it, I broke one of those rules rabbiting an 800 once. Someone was ahead of me at the 200m mark and I passed him inside the rail to get ahead)

zxcvzxcv wrote:

2015 NFHS/MHSA Rules:

Rule 4, Section 6 Disqualification:

ART. 5

It is an unfair act when a competitor receives any assistance. Assistance includes:

a. Interference with another competitor.

b. Pacing by a teammate not in the race or persons not participating in the event.

https://cdn3.sportngin.com/attachments/document/0080/1966/NFHS_and_MHSA_Track_and_Field_Rules_-_Uniform__Jewelry_and_Disqualification_Rules.pdf

Also see 2019 USATF Competition Rules, Rule 144:

(2) "... a competitor who has received any assistance whatsoever may be disqualified ..."

(3) "The following shall be considered examples of assistance: (a) Pacing in running or walking events by persons not participating in the event, by competitors lapped or about to be lapped, ..."

I was paid $75 once to bring a field of elite high schoolers through 3/4 mile in 3:06 in a road mile, when I was in college. It was harder than I expected. Good luck getting that money back from me.

FakeLetsRunNews wrote:

zxcvzxcv wrote:

2015 NFHS/MHSA Rules:

Rule 4, Section 6 Disqualification:

ART. 5

It is an unfair act when a competitor receives any assistance. Assistance includes:

a. Interference with another competitor.

b. Pacing by a teammate not in the race or persons not participating in the event.

https://cdn3.sportngin.com/attachments/document/0080/1966/NFHS_and_MHSA_Track_and_Field_Rules_-_Uniform__Jewelry_and_Disqualification_Rules.pdf

Also see 2019 USATF Competition Rules, Rule 144:

(2) "... a competitor who has received any assistance whatsoever may be disqualified ..."

(3) "The following shall be considered examples of assistance: (a) Pacing in running or walking events by persons not participating in the event, by competitors lapped or about to be lapped, ..."

http://www.usatf.org/usatf/files/da/daf2d12d-b51c-475c-9b06-4a6b41d81071.pdf

The rules you refer to are to prevent those outside of the event from pacing from the sidelines

I was paid to lead a 10k road race for the 1st mile. I split 4:24 and was in 3rd place behind 2 Kenyans and I did not collect.

zxcvzxcv wrote:

2015 NFHS/MHSA Rules:

Rule 4, Section 6 Disqualification:

ART. 5

It is an unfair act when a competitor receives any assistance. Assistance includes:

a. Interference with another competitor.

b. Pacing by a teammate not in the race or persons not participating in the event.

https://cdn3.sportngin.com/attachments/document/0080/1966/NFHS_and_MHSA_Track_and_Field_Rules_-_Uniform__Jewelry_and_Disqualification_Rules.pdf

Thank you for your help. I was mistaken then that the pacing was a problem. The shoving people out of the way and cussing at people is a different story

Reading is for chumps wrote:

FakeLetsRunNews wrote:

Also see 2019 USATF Competition Rules, Rule 144:

(2) "... a competitor who has received any assistance whatsoever may be disqualified ..."

(3) "The following shall be considered examples of assistance: (a) Pacing in running or walking events by persons not participating in the event, by competitors lapped or about to be lapped, ..."

http://www.usatf.org/usatf/files/da/daf2d12d-b51c-475c-9b06-4a6b41d81071.pdf

The rules you refer to are to prevent those outside of the event from pacing from the sidelines

You are wrong. The rule is in part to prevent those "inside" of the event from pacing when they are "lapped or about to be lapped". The phrase "by competitors lapped or about to be lapped, ..." is to stop a competitor from running 2 laps in 3 minutes (6 min/mile pace), so that a leader going for a sub 4 min/mile can run 3 laps in 3 minutes (4 min/mile pace), and then have the "competitor" who was "about to be lapped" suddenly accelerates from a 6 min/mile pace to a 4 min/mile pace on his third lap to pace the leader to a sub 4 minute mile on his final lap.

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