Road Racing and Training Thread, Week Ending 3/17/2019

Hey Viking,

Not an expert by any means, but if it's not just a hamstring strain, what you're describing sounds similar to my experience with piriformis syndrome (that's what I concluded it was, anyway). Is it a weird feeling, different from a normal muscle ache, kind of a burning/tingling sensation?

I found prone leg lifts very helpful, like almost a magic bullet in my case, but you would want to know you don't have a lower back problem before trying those. If you don't have a back problem, and prone leg lifts do help, you may want to work on strengthening the glute/hip. (One of those notes that I wish I could send to myself about ten years ago...)

I think RRR has been dealing with piriformis issues and he may have some insight.

Speaking of which: RRR, I definitely hear you on the hip problems. What a drag. Get yourself healthy, and getting fit will come a lot easier (so I keep telling myself).

More comments to come, but work to do first...

Does sound like piriformis.. Hopefully not the case because that injury can niggle you to death. I did a lot of stretching esp the standing pigeon pose. I also got massaged every two weeks.. will take baths and ibuprofen when needed. Also laying on a lacrosse/trigger point ball and getting it to release. When I had it bad it summer it took steroids to finally get over it. It is semi inflamed now along with my hip flexors.

The thing that is tough with dealing with the Piri, at least for me, it can crop up and vanish with really no rhyme or reason. Could hardly walk/run 4 weeks ago and jogged 16 miles that week in pain .. the next week it went away and I ran a decent 10k.. and now its back hurting.

Also been doing the SAM core stuff.. it can really get ya down if you let it. So stay strong and X Train and keep the head in the game.

Just a drive by to check in on some folks.

Too many great races to hit on them all, but a quick moment to recognize some great efforts by Coyote and darkwave. Two different outcomes, but the common thread of grittiness runs through them. Darkwave, I know how it feels being close to having a day that clicks but just falls short to some degree, but that 1:24 performance is nothing to hang your head about (you also beat the top Orlando area masters woman who happened to be up there (and who has been top 10 masters a couple of times in Chicago) in the process).

My foot feels great, my core/abdominal issue is still a mess. I have been relegated to walking a couple miles a day a few days a week. I am about to hit a bit of a slow patch at work, so I am going to see if I can pour some time into some PT and see how things play out. Either way, I am pretty content with where things are, although my liver may go on strike if some things don't change (thus the recent addition of walking).

going faster miles an hour wrote:

Is it a weird feeling, different from a normal muscle ache, kind of a burning/tingling sensation?

I found prone leg lifts very helpful, like almost a magic bullet in my case, but you would want to know you don't have a lower back problem before trying those. If you don't have a back problem, and prone leg lifts do help, you may want to work on strengthening the glute/hip. (One of those notes that I wish I could send to myself about ten years ago...)

I think RRR has been dealing with piriformis issues and he may have some insight.

Hey Going Faster and RRR,

Thanks for your comments.

First, no lower back problems. I typically don't have any running related injuries either. In my 50 minute jog yesterday at roughly 11:30 pace, I felt quite good with a bit of a tingle way at the bottom of the hamstring. It wasn't painful but had the sensation that it might have started to hurt if I sped up. I didn't use any ibuprofen before the run but took some a few hours later with lunch just in case it helps. I will try some of those stretches you guys recommended tonight and maybe try a bit of exercise bike and walking. I might do a slow, short jog around the block after work to see how it feels either today or tomorrow.

Thanks for all the help!

M, 31, 6'1", 160ish?

Recent:17:49

Upcoming: half on 4/28, 5k on 5/27

S. off

M. 6.4 easy

T. off

W. off

Th. hilly 5.4 in a.m./ p.m. 4.6 easy, flat, 8:00

F. 6.5 very easy, 9:30

S. 5.1 easy on rolling hills, 10:00

Total: 28

Planned down week and good thing it was. Didn't plan three days off, but early on I felt pretty wiped out and hey, down week. By Thursday morning I was 100% and did some solid hills with the dog. Strong and steady up (not just fast), easy and smooth down. She's a great coach.

First week below 30 since October. That's some sort of consistency record for me. String of weeks from last summer: 19, 27, 48, 17, 52, 25.

Much fine racing out there!More later, but

LebannonHills: Dirty, grunting worker here. You totally could have jumped on that access road or whatever. If you're not literally stepping in the way of whatever tools they were using, they probably don't mind. I guess I'm not the Spokesman for All Laborers but I bet it's fine.

GuyBroman--Ha, thanks. I'm sure I could have and they wouldn't have said a word. They seemed like good guys and we exchanged some hearty "good mornings." Truth be told I was more concerned with getting yelled at by some white collar guy as their office down the road looked active on Saturday morning. Luckily the snow/ice is dissipating and this won't be something I'll have to worry much about for the next 7 months.

Toohot and BHViking--Thanks for weighing in on your thoughts about Grandma's. I think I will keep training using 3:05 paces and just run by feel at Grandma's. I think there is a lot of wisdom to listening to your body.

I'm really impressed with the gritty and determined racing. Darkwave, as just one example, I don't know how you did that. A great time even without factoring in the physical issues. Great job!

Interesting to hear more about your experience, RRR. I had only remembered the "run epic trail race" part of your recovery plan.

For myself, I find the pigeon pose most helpful with ITB issues. That kneeling psoas stretch is the one that seems to help the most with my hip flexor at the moment. Stretching the quad also seems to help, as does rolling the quad on a lacrosse ball. And the prone leg lifts (with straight leg and with bent leg) seem to be good for the psoas as well as the piriformis. If you're having trouble with the piriformis again, I would suggest giving those a try. They were kind of like flipping a switch for me with that. Different things work for different people - I suspect lack of strength through the hip is a big part of the problem for me, but I'm guessing you're a lot better off in that regard with the lifting and biking you do.

Anyhow, we'll get off the injured reserve before too long - just have to hang in there and keep at it.

Viking: Reading the details you added, it sounds a little less like piriformis as I experienced it (mine would be more high in the hamstring or in the butt and radiating down, as opposed to lower in the hamstring like you're describing).

The 30 mile trail relay to fix the piriformis worked .. but that was the left Piri. The problems later than summer was the right one. On a string of some bad luck. Some trails to build up the stabilizers etc is good idea that I will implement.

Taking the 79 Raleigh in today to get tuned up so will be a lot of hitting the open road this spring. So it will be okay. Just keep on working as much as can.

going faster miles an hour wrote:

I'm guessing you're a lot better off in that regard with the lifting and biking you do.

Last time I checked RRR only does upper body strength training ;)

rrr – stinks to hear about the hip, hope it come around faster than you think it will. Core, strengthening, maybe a quick trip to a PT?

Sub 6 – Nice race! Not sure what the significance of this weekend and 4 mile races is, but we had one around me as well. Odd distance if you ask me.

TDR – Wisdom teeth at 34 years old? Dang, why now?! I had mine done in college, and I can tell you, I did not get put under and it was horrifying. I think at one point my dentist had his foot up on the arm of the chair for leverage to get one of those suckers out. The trip to the pharmacy was fun afterwards… gauze stuffed in my face up to my eyeballs. Waiting for some pain killers. My parents figured I could handle it myself… that drive afterwards was something.

Stone – AWESOME race. Congrats on a great time, and great to hear things are going so well. A major breakthrough after 23 years is amazing. Kudos. Excited to see how the half turns out. Your training has been inspiring.

LebHills – I’d been thinking about the NB Beacon… but I was running in some of the more heavily cushioned, newer foam shoes recently, and it really flared up my PF…. So back to my staple of a Brooks Ghost.

GT – That’s a weird one. I feel like those are the ones that scare me the most as well. Not the overuse, but the sudden onset when I’m not really doing anything out of the ordinary. My wife tells me I’m way too “in tune” with my body… aka I’m scared of every little ache and how it will impact my workout that day… she’s correct.

Puddles – Great race! 1:13 on a tough course is nothing but good news if you’re heading for 71’s. That would be a good confidence boost if you ask me. Nice to get a gauge on where you stand.

BHV – I’m not in the game of medical advice, and from the sounds of it, I wouldn’t even know where to start. If it were me, I’d jog as long as it didn’t bother me, just to keep blood flowing. Ibuprofen if there is inflammation, but can you really tell? Foam roll is good, I tend to roll everything that hurts thinking it will help, no idea if it does. Good luck on getting back.

BornAnAx – Great race, with some nice splits up until that very last mile. You keep training, that sub 1:20 is a cake walk next time. I am quickly becoming a proponent of slow easy days in the 8:00 range. I used to run easy days in the 7-7:20 range… but as I upped the quality, my body is so happy that I go easy 7:45-8:00 on the easy days. I’m less focused on the mileage those days, and look more at time… try and get out for an hour or so. I figure, if I’m running at 7:20 pace or 8:00 pace, either way, I’m getting my body what I want, recovery/easy. Whats the mileage matter if the time on my feet is the same. And it’s better for my body overall. Anyway, give it a shot and see how it goes… focusing on the time and not the mileage has really helped me.

Coyote – Great RR and really great race overall. Amazing age grade PR… just amazing.

Jot quill – Amazing week capped by a great race. 8.5 minute PR is NO JOKE. Looks like that monster mileage has really soaked into your legs and that aerobic base is STRONG. Those splits are dang impressive. Controlled, smart running, and a great finish. Wish they could all go that well.

Darkwave – Another strong race, in the face of some adversity. Nothing worse that stomach issues that you can’t pinpoint. I feel like as runners, most of us have been there, it just stinks when it happens in a race setting. Still finished strong and got some good work in, so it wasn’t all for naught, I hope.

JB – Rest day probably felt really good, don’t feel guilty (easier said than done). Those workouts are legit. Good luck this weekend.

VF Runner – Sorry to hear about life. Life gets in the way of an otherwise fun world of running. Seems like you have a good attitude about it, and I’m sure something better will come of it. Good luck!

GFMAH – Bats… they are the worst. I’ve had my fair share of run ins with them, and there is nothing worse or more terrifying when you see one, try and get rid of it, and then cannot find it. Sleep just isn’t happening. Good to hear you got the jerk out. Hope your hip is coming around.

SI – Nice mileage… the time change has definitely helped those of us that run mid-late afternoon. Love it.

Urban – Nice week. Double machine.

DietBacon – Sounds like there were a few hills in that run…

Coach Jeff – Great week, and that 20 miler sounds HOT.

RunnerSam – Good to see you back from being ReaderSam in this thread. Looks like there was some firepower at that 4 miler here over the weekend. Some dudes throwing down some good times despite the cooler temps and the wind. Oh the wind.

Ok, back to work…

Pewow - thanks for the link. Main reason don’t do much leg work is lack of a gym. So like that bodyweight stuff. I do do air squats etc. and lots of stairs daily!

My “gym” is very rocky esque. Buckets of sand. Some weights. 2 dumbbells and a lot of body weight stuff. Works. Resistance is resistance.

DIetBacon,

It's been a while. Care to update us on your training over the past month or so?

Thanks Smoove and LancRunner. My legs felt really good on Saturday and was able to make the most out of a less than perfect weather day. Garmin said 16 mph headwind for 2.5 miles. Running in that pack saved my race. Darkwave, sorry about your troubles in the half but still a good showing with a 1:24.

Looking forward to Poland Urban Diesel and we'll see each other at the XC race, if not before that. Safe travels. I get in on Thursday.

LancRunner wrote:

TDR – Wisdom teeth at 34 years old? Dang, why now?! I had mine done in college, and I can tell you, I did not get put under and it was horrifying. I think at one point my dentist had his foot up on the arm of the chair for leverage to get one of those suckers out. The trip to the pharmacy was fun afterwards… gauze stuffed in my face up to my eyeballs. Waiting for some pain killers. My parents figured I could handle it myself… that drive afterwards was something.

Thanks man I’m feeling a lot less scared now! Lol. Yeah these should have come out years ago but they never gave me any trouble until now. All four need to come out and they are implanted. I guess there’s no real convenient time to get this done but it would be nice to get in a few more races and finish the current training cycle at least.

M59 5'11" 183 lbs

Lifetime bests:

4:45 mile, 16:04 5K, 34:04 10K, 2:40:30 marathon

M55-59 bests:

5:37 mile, 18:58 5K, 40:09 10K, 59:59 15K, 1:28:41 HM, 3:07:23 marathon

March 11-17, 2019

M - 20 mins bike trainer

Tu - Off

W - Off

Th - 35 mins elliptical

Fr - Off

Sa - Off

Su - 20 mins bike trainer

Last Monday I finally got a diagnosis for my knee: Patellar osteophyte at quadriceps tendon attachment; calcification within the quadriceps tendon; quadriceps tendinitis; patellar tendinitis.

Yesterday, my PT worked with me for a long while. He's optimistic that I can work through this without surgery. He doesn't believe the bone spur is contributing to the pain, nor is the calcification. He thinks a "bone bruise" caused by my fall last October is taking a long while to heal, and the tendinitis, as was the case last year, is mostly caused by my lack of flexibility, along with muscle weakness/imbalance.

So, I have a protocol of exercises prescribed, similar to what I did 15 months ago. No running for a while, but I can get on the bike and the elliptical. It will be a challenge to lose the 25 pounds I gained since October.

Nineteen weeks to the 15K. I'd like to defend my M55-59 title again, but that would have been a huge challenge even if I had been training through the fall and winter. I turn 60 a couple days after the race, and there's another group of speedsters who are 55 this year ...

Just some quick shout outs to this past weekend's racers.

Coyote - Super job on that 8k and congrats on the AG 1st.

darkwave - Sorry to hear of the GI problems. Looks like you made it through the pit stop quickly and you still managed a very respectable time.

RRR - Congrats on the 15k win. I hope your injuries improve over the next couple of weeks so that you can put together something decent for the 5k. You can mark me as tentative for Saturday night in Boston. I'm not sure of how things will play out for me since I will have my wife and daughter with me.

Sub 6:00 - Good job on that 4 miler. Sounds like you had some good competition. Looks like things are coming together for a good performance at Boston.

Stone - Congrats on the 5k PR. Things are looking good for your upcoming HM.

Jot - Great job at the NYC Half.

Axolotl - Good job with the NYC Half. You definitely had a full week leading up to that race. Maybe with more of a taper you would have gone sub 1:20. I get the difficulty of recovery runs. I have gotten better about slowing down. Some days I get it right and other days I have to consciously remind myself to slow it down. I used to cut my easy days short before learning to slow things down enough.

pewow - Congrats on the podium finish at your 10k.

Great news, Allen! The comeback begins...

runrincerepeat wrote:

Pewow - thanks for the link. Main reason don’t do much leg work is lack of a gym. So like that bodyweight stuff. I do do air squats etc. and lots of stairs daily!

My “gym” is very rocky esque. Buckets of sand. Some weights. 2 dumbbells and a lot of body weight stuff. Works. Resistance is resistance.

No problem. Something I'm playing with in my strength training is the idea of are your muscles screaming or singing.

When you're grinding up a hill on the single speed I'm sure your legs are screaming. Doing something like a lunge the legs are now singing in a way that will help you move better. Do too many lunges and at some point the legs will be screaming again which doesn't help you.

RRR - Easy running, additional aerobic work on the bike, and some strides for coordination—I think you might be able to slug it through a surprisingly okay 5k next month.

SC - Awesome 5k!

LebanonHills - The bad footing all winter is what I miss least about running in Michigan, even more than the cold. Always a great feeling to get in some good pace work like that on a clear surface.

Gordon - Glad the scare was just a scare, and nice time trial.

Puddles - That course doesn’t look easy. A lot of rollers from what I can tell. Good run.

BHViking - Sorry to hear about the hamstrings. If it were me, I’d probably do light jogging if it doesn’t cause pain, but my confidence on that is low. The sensation you describe isn’t something I’m familiar with.

OR - Nice week it appears. Looking forward to the details.

BornAnAxolotl - I figured you’d get a new handle, but is the new one (BAA) in reference to a future goal? Nice race, once again.

Coyote Montane - Great race , and hope you have a good time in Toruń. My brother lives in Poznan, and I’ve heard Torun is a nice place to visit.

Jot Quill - Nice race, and the taper looks good. A few more good weeks till Boston.

Darkwave - Sorry to hear it didn’t go as planned. GI issues are the worst. At least there are plenty of other good races on your calendar this spring. As too hot notes, the ability to run like that without fussing over splits is indeed a skill, and a tough one for many of us to master.

Jewbacca - Good luck in Mobile. Nice workouts.

VF Runner - Hang in there, and hope something good comes from it. Interesting run there on Sunday.

GFMAH - Interesting cross training. Perhaps I should have noted my 1 x cat-assisted mouse eviction. Hoping for a speedy recovery.

SI - Congrats on the mileage PR! Boston will be here before we know it.

Urban Diesel - Blazing intervals, and nice mile race.

DietBacon - Sounds like a tough long run. Hope it was fun?

Jeff - Glad to see you had a good week. Only a few more hard workouts left.

Th3bt - Happy to hear you’re getting back to it. The Achilles troubles can linger.

RGMW - These weeks happen. Good luck in the 8k.

Cocoon - Nice Wednesday workout. Sometimes the midweek stuff hinders the weekend long run, but you’re getting in good work nonetheless.

James - Be careful with the groin strain. Those can be complicated. Good luck in the 4 miler.

RunnerSam - Nice progress. When they lowered the standard from 2:22 for 2008 to 2:19 for 2012, it significantly hurt my motivation to keep grinding it out through my 20s. (I ran a high 2:26 in 2007.) I’d imagine this would similarly affect a faster stratum of runners. And capping Diamond League at 3k is a shame.

LancRunner - Hard to hit three workouts in a week. Safe travels.

Pewow - Congrats on the PR. Sounds like a tough course to do that on.

Smoove - Best wishes on the core problems. Hope to see you back running soon.

Guy Broman - Nothing wrong with a down week. Nice consistency over the last few months.

Allen - Those patellar bone bruises are brutal. My worst one was in September 2016. By March I was only up to running for a few minutes at a time. Started back to soon (October) and probably waited too long to see a doctor and go to PT, both because I underestimated the severity of it. But the PT really seemed to help.