What is the best time run by a High School miler in an race consisting of only HS guys?
Since there is all of this talk about the legitimacy of Paula setting a WR with a male pacer, it begs the question of how legitimate is a high school mile record set in a race with professional runners who can serve as rabbits.
Jim Ryun ran 3:58-something at his state meet during his senior year. I may be wrong, but I believe that every other high school sub-4 has been in an open race.
Best ever in ?High School only? meet
3:58.3 Jim Ryun - East, Wichita, KS - Kansas HS State Meet (Wichita) 5/15/1965
This was the 3rd time he broke the high school mile record and the only time he did it in a high school race. He went on to break it 3 more times in "open" races.
Important to note that the performance by Ryun is still the only time a high schooler has ever broken 4:00 in an actual high school race. If my memory serves me from the Ryun story on TF&N, he had a friend sacrifice himself and pace Ryun to 3:01 or so -- and then Jim ran the whole last lap (cinder ?) all by his lonesome self.
When Webb ran that indoor sub 4 his senior year, was that HS only? I actually don't know. I could look it up, but don't want to.
No. New Balance Games.
So is Ryan's 3:58 the only sub-4 in a high school only meet?
Since every other HS time faster than this was run with professionals who could be considered rabbits, then shouldn't this time be considered the HS record?
If the only records that counted were ones that were unrabbited then there are a whole lot of world records that need to be rewritten.
There's no rule baring high schoolers from racing against anyone.
And besides, most world middle distance/distance records are rabitted these days.
In the Kansas high school state meet Ryun?s senior year, Ryun led all the way from the start but was chased hard by his teammate Mike Petterson through the 880 in 2:00. Ryun was leading but "hearing footsteps" from Petterson. Ryun pulled away around the turn after the half and kept pushing by himself. On this third lap he opened a huge gap. Into the back straight on the last lap he was going full blast, with as much turnover as he could get, really pumping his arms. Going into the last turn he had a 120 to 150 yard lead, all of it came in 600 yards. Petterson hung on for second place in something like 4:17.
Ryun gave a tribute to Petterson on the school?s record board next to the mile record. Ryun would be the first to say he was greatly assisted in the race, yet it should be noted that he led start to tape.
If a high school guy can get the HS mile record being paced by non-high schoolers, then why is there any debate on whether or not Paula Radcliff should be allowed a male pacer for her WR attempt even if it's an all-womans race?
I was thinking about something else, what about those high schoolers that run sub-4 in an open race and win? Nate Brannen did so. I'm not really making a point here or anything, just thinking...
brannen's sub-4 was also rabbited through 1200 or something.
FairFields wrote:
If a high school guy can get the HS mile record being paced by non-high schoolers, then why is there any debate on whether or not Paula Radcliff should be allowed a male pacer for her WR attempt even if it's an all-womans race?
1) Then it is not an all-women's race. I think that female rabbits would be fine since they would be eligible to win the race.
2) A simple solution is to start the men and women together. Of course, then the IAAF is silly in regards to its precious records in this regard.
An issue in both cases is that the pacer should be able to win the race. In the first example, he would not be eligible. In the second example, Paula (or any other woman, Paula should not be singled out) might pace off a male, but in theory that male would be running his best performance and she would be tagging along.
I have become less of a fan of rabbits in races over the years.
Great video of Ryun's 3:55 mile in hgih school
What a great video! Thanks for the lead. I noticed 3 things in particular: (1) they ran on a cinder track; (2) Ryun spent a fair amount of time outside of lane 1; and (3) when he took the lead around the last lap, he always responded to those who fought to overtake him ? great competitive instinct.
By the way, has anyone ever calculated what advantage you gain timewise (if any at all) from running on a synthetic all-weather track as opposed to cinder? I have to believe that Ryun's 3:55 would translate to at least a second or two faster on today's tracks. Webb may have the record, but in terms of number of times under 4:00 in high school and doing it in the state meet his sr. yr., Ryun is still the best U.S. high school miler we've ever had . . . by more than a little!
I'd also like to pose a question that I asked a couple weeks back on this board but which didn't get much attention. Here it is: Ryun was born on April 29, 1947, so that would've made him 17 years and a few months old when he first broke 4:00 between his jr. and sr. year. What runners have broken 4:00 at an earlier age? One person said that Hezekiel Sepeng of South Africa did so at the age of 16 yr., 6 days, but there was no documentation. What do others out there know?