Secret problem w/ Vaporfly 4%

The stack for Brooks Hyperion Elite will be similar to Ghost at 30mm

ye the stack height is lulz

oh lawdy I didn't realize it was so bad tho

that's a full inch and a half

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYLNZPzorSI

belongs in this vid

Re: Saucony Prototype

I wish it would be the Fastwitch 9 with 8 mm of drop, full rubber outsole, more responsive (at the cost of 10-15~ grams but well worth it)

I was about to buy the Fastwitch 9s but I just taped the upper of my A8s so I'm set for shoes for another month.

You obviously have no clue why these shoes make you more efficient do you? The foam combined with the shape of the plate is the magic. Reduce the stack height, you then reduce the energy return. The people that think a lower stack height with a flat carbon plate is going to do much other than give you a firm platform is sadly mistaken. See the Hoka Carbon. The problem is likely that you haven't run enough miles in them for your form to adjust to them. Once you do that, those issues will go away. It uses your muscles in different ways that require adaptation. It's like saying you did 20 X 400 downhill at 9% grade and cant understand why you're so sore the next day! A helpful hint if you do want to adapt and use them for racing would be to get yourself a pair of the zoom fly flyknits and train in those several times per week. You're body will adapt to what's required for the design, then when you use the 4%, you'll be ready for them.

I work in run speciality and studied exercise science lol I understand why the vaporfly is the way it is, it just doesn’t work for me. I have natural neutral form and foot strike, why on earth would I want a shoe to change my form. I did training runs in it, tempos, repeats, and 20 mile runs and I owned the zoom fly as well. The shoe is not for me. You have to realize there’s no shoe in the world that will work for 100% of people. That’s what this post was for, people like me. I run in low stack 4 drop shoes, the vaporfly is to harsh of a contrast to that for me.

Shunpo wrote:

I work in run speciality and studied exercise science lol I understand why the vaporfly is the way it is, it just doesn’t work for me. I have natural neutral form and foot strike, why on earth would I want a shoe to change my form. I did training runs in it, tempos, repeats, and 20 mile runs and I owned the zoom fly as well. The shoe is not for me. You have to realize there’s no shoe in the world that will work for 100% of people. That’s what this post was for, people like me. I run in low stack 4 drop shoes, the vaporfly is to harsh of a contrast to that for me.

Cry more about your waste of $250

Shunpo wrote:

I work in run speciality and studied exercise science lol I understand why the vaporfly is the way it is, it just doesn’t work for me. I have natural neutral form and foot strike, why on earth would I want a shoe to change my form. I did training runs in it, tempos, repeats, and 20 mile runs and I owned the zoom fly as well. The shoe is not for me. You have to realize there’s no shoe in the world that will work for 100% of people. That’s what this post was for, people like me. I run in low stack 4 drop shoes, the vaporfly is to harsh of a contrast to that for me.

Your education doesn’t mean jack squat here.

There is no “shoe science” or “running biomechanics “ class. Did you study it or get a degree?

The above poster isn’t wrong either. You should’ve realized in your workouts before the race that the 4% wasn’t for you. If you’re use to a low stack height... you should’ve stayed with a low stack height.

My next suggestion would be to change your mentality. If you don’t expect the shoes to work then they probably won’t.

These guys had to learn to run differently with springs on, too. Hey, that reminds me ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9Wlp1sTnoY

Give him a break.

I also like minimalistic shoes with not a lot of heelstack, so the OP gave me valuable information. Instead of saying rubbish you should give input from your own experience.

Personally I crashed much harder wearing the NB 1400 at CIM than I did wearing the Nike VF4% at Houston. I figure it was the downhills and rollers at CIM, not the shoes.

Again I work in run specialty, didnt pay full price lol. And sold them.

Interesting! Thanks for the feedback. I also need to hydrate better and I’m sure there’s a ton of other factors.

Yes I got a degree lol. And sure there’s not a class on shoes but in run specialty Nike comes and talks to us about their shoes, they even showed us the cut up models of the 4% and zoom fly before they came out. The fact of the matter is I’ve seen plenty of people buy the 4% the week before their race and have no problems or soreness afterwards and 10/10 times those people run in tradtional well cushioned shoes. I know the shoe is the way it is for a reason but zoom X foam is half the reason that shoe is so fast, not just the stack off set and plate. Zoom X is more responsive than boost, everun, revlite, and the whole lot. If the Hoka Carbon rocker had zoom X foam it’d be a faster shoe period. That’s why I want the more minimal brands to come out with better foam. I think Reebok and Sketchers are close.

I will say though the vaporfly makes me heel strike on downhills where I usually land on the outside of my foot then roll over to the ball and big toe, that pounds your legs a lot more and can be a big problem hill after hill.

Thanks for the info, probably still too high for me though. And are you sure? The pictures of Desi and Shadrack’s shoes look huge.

So...its the stack height that is problem, not the heel-to-toe drop?

It’s both for me but mostly the stack, I can run fine in 6 drops so 10 shouldn’t be a drastic difference although I definitely don’t prefer it.

Are you going to try the next%? You bring up good points.

Heel stack alone says nothing, right? I guess what matters is shoe drop?