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Trying to get a better physique without losing too much aerobic fitness, I started lifting 6 days a week last November while still running 30-40 mpw. Surprisingly (or unsurprisingly), it has really worn me down, even more so than when I was running 60-70 mpw. My RHR is higher than it should be at that MPW and I am always grumpy and having trouble falling asleep these days. Clearly something went wrong. That makes me wonder if the lifting is the culprit . Every time I've done lifting, I am knackered and I am starting to dread the thought of going to the gym or even just going for an easy run .
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I'm trying to do the same. You'll get used to it.
But also, it's important to remember to manage your effort on lifting days.
Have some easy days and hard days just like with your running. If you lift hard everyday, it's the same as running hard everyday. -
Are you on steroids? No? Then why are you lifting 6 days a week?
Stick to 4 days a week upper/lower or push/pull split. Or even 3 days a week total body.
Alan -
jhb wrote:
I'm trying to do the same. You'll get used to it.
But also, it's important to remember to manage your effort on lifting days.
Have some easy days and hard days just like with your running. If you lift hard everyday, it's the same as running hard everyday.
I do lift to failure for every session and every set. Maybe I really should vary the intensity.
Thanks for the advice!
Anyway, here's my routine, please critique:
Day1:pull
6-7 sets of wide-grip pull-ups to failure (40-45 reps in total)
3 sets of Lats pull-down (12 reps, down to 6 reps for the last set to failure)
3-4 sets of Dumbbell row
4 sets of biceps curl
Day2:push
4-5 sets of (flat)bench press (8-12 reps to failure)
3 sets of incline bench press
3 sets of push-ups to failure
3 sets of dips to failure
Day3:pull
same as day 1
day4:push
4-5 sets of shoulder press (8-12 reps to failure)
3-4 sets of dumbbell side raise
3-4 sets of dumbbell fly
3 sets of push-ups to failure
3 sets of dips to failure
day5:leg
5 sets of deadlift(8-12 reps to failure)
or
5 sets of squats (8-12 reps to failure)
and
3-4 sets of leg curl/extension
day6: push/pull
same as day1/2/4
They're all done either with dumbbells or bodyweight, my gym is so pathetic and shabby that it doesn't even have barbells.
For running, I run before I lift. Mostly 40-60 minutes of easy runs with some short run-to-the-barn and strides thrown in here and there. -
Runningart2004 wrote:
Are you on steroids? No? Then why are you lifting 6 days a week?
Stick to 4 days a week upper/lower or push/pull split. Or even 3 days a week total body.
Alan
Great to see you chime in here, Alan! You're an expert on the subject.
So lifting 6 days is indeed too much?
How would you structure a 4-day program? -
i was trying to lift, run, and play soccer in grad school all at the same time. my weekly schedule looked like this:
M: Squats + Training
T: 200s or 400s + Pickup
W: Cleans + Training
T: 3-5 mile tempo or mile repeats + Pickup
F: Deadlifts + Training
S: 800s + Training
S: Rest
I had three hour long lifts (squats cleans deadlifts were the primary lifts), training included a lot of ballwork plus speed endurance geared shuttles. The workouts were all done close to maximum capacity; the tempo runs were basically race pace. Pickup was for an hour and a half sometimes nonstop. I did variations of this for around 3 years until I switched entirely to running. My mileage (including soccer) was about 15-20, but it was virtually all quality. Now I run 60 mpw and do a maximum of two light lifts per week, and not surprisingly the current workload is much more manageable.
What you're trying to do is a really tall order. If running is still your primary objective, there are easier ways to build physique without stretching yourself thin. I would lift maximum 4 days per week and balance difficult stuff like heavy squats/max rep bodyweight with easier maintainence lifts (like half the reps/weight you would normally do), the same way not every run should leave you exhausted. I was doing the same thing as you, trying to go balls to the wall in three different things and it left me exhausted and was ultimately a non-optimal way of doing things. It was still fun to push myself to the limit, but just chill with the lifts and I promise you will get where you want. What do your lifts look like anyways? -
lifting shouldnt kill you as a distance runner
lifting plans for runners are different than lifting plans for lifters
simply doing 6 days plus running isnt too much but if you dont transition properly it is -
I am surprised it took 3 months to burn you out.
Too much volume, too little variety. -
big hookie and baba wrote:
i was trying to lift, run, and play soccer in grad school all at the same time. my weekly schedule looked like this:
M: Squats + Training
T: 200s or 400s + Pickup
W: Cleans + Training
T: 3-5 mile tempo or mile repeats + Pickup
F: Deadlifts + Training
S: 800s + Training
S: Rest
I had three hour long lifts (squats cleans deadlifts were the primary lifts), training included a lot of ballwork plus speed endurance geared shuttles. The workouts were all done close to maximum capacity; the tempo runs were basically race pace. Pickup was for an hour and a half sometimes nonstop. I did variations of this for around 3 years until I switched entirely to running. My mileage (including soccer) was about 15-20, but it was virtually all quality. Now I run 60 mpw and do a maximum of two light lifts per week, and not surprisingly the current workload is much more manageable.
What you're trying to do is a really tall order. If running is still your primary objective, there are easier ways to build physique without stretching yourself thin. I would lift maximum 4 days per week and balance difficult stuff like heavy squats/max rep bodyweight with easier maintainence lifts (like half the reps/weight you would normally do), the same way not every run should leave you exhausted. I was doing the same thing as you, trying to go balls to the wall in three different things and it left me exhausted and was ultimately a non-optimal way of doing things. It was still fun to push myself to the limit, but just chill with the lifts and I promise you will get where you want. What do your lifts look like anyways?
Thanks for the insights and the reassurance.. Will try capping it at 4 days per week and see how things go.
As for my routine:
Day1:pull
6-7 sets of wide-grip pull-ups to failure (40-45 reps in total)
3 sets of Lats pull-down (12 reps, down to 6 reps for the last set to failure)
3-4 sets of Dumbbell row
4 sets of biceps curl
Day2:push
4-5 sets of (flat)bench press (8-12 reps to failure)
3 sets of incline bench press
3 sets of push-ups to failure
3 sets of dips to failure
Day3:pull
same as day 1
Day4:push
4-5 sets of shoulder press (8-12 reps to failure)
3-4 sets of dumbbell side raise
3-4 sets of dumbbell fly
3 sets of push-ups to failure
3 sets of dips to failure
Day5:leg
5 sets of deadlift(8-12 reps to failure)
or
5 sets of squats (8-12 reps to failure)
and
3-4 sets of leg curl/extension
Day6: push/pull
same as Day1/2/4
They're all done either with dumbbells or bodyweight, my gym is so pathetic and shabby that it doesn't even have barbells.
For running, I run before I lift. Mostly 40-60 minutes of easy runs with some short run-to-the-barn and strides thrown in here and there. -
runnerbro wrote:
lifting shouldnt kill you as a distance runner
lifting plans for runners are different than lifting plans for lifters
simply doing 6 days plus running isnt too much but if you dont transition properly it is
I admit I have no idea how to structure workouts properly. May you shed some light on that? -
George213 wrote:
I am surprised it took 3 months to burn you out.
Too much volume, too little variety.
Actually not too much soreness on my body, but I just feel tired all the time. -
Jack Foster and Ron Clarke would lift every day.
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I’d cut back a day or two on the lifting. Even when I was strictly a lifter and ran very little I only worked out 5 days a week. If you’re tired there’s really a couple reasons why and they may even be compounded. First, you may not be eating enough. Averaging 5-6 miles per day plus lifting will burn you up pretty quick if you’re not staying hydrated and getting plenty of fuel. Next, you have to take breaks. You cannot go hard 6 days a week with no breaks. I suggest taking a week off from lifting and when you return to the gym follow a 4-5 day max lifting schedule. I would routinely take an entire week off every 6-8 weeks from lifting. I’d come back really fresh. I suggest you do the same.
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Even most lifters don't lift 6 days a week. Lifting is not like running. Take the RunningArt's advice on the subject.
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quickndirty wrote:
Even most lifters don't lift 6 days a week. Lifting is not like running. Take the RunningArt's advice on the subject.
Bulgarian method says otherwise. As long as you aren't going out everyday, you should be good. -
Runningart2004 wrote:
Are you on steroids? No? Then why are you lifting 6 days a week?
Stick to 4 days a week upper/lower or push/pull split. Or even 3 days a week total body.
Alan
OP did not say he or she runs for a team. Since no teammates are counting on OP's racing performances, there is nothing wrong with OP lifting x 6 days per week. Running 30-40 miles a week of mileage plus weight training x 6 days a week is a great way to cut body fat percentage. -
Hybrid_Runner wrote:
George213 wrote:
I am surprised it took 3 months to burn you out.
Too much volume, too little variety.
Actually not too much soreness on my body, but I just feel tired all the time.
What are your goals here? Running goals? Lifting goals? Other goals? -
Like running art said, cut it down to 4 days of lifting. Mondays - Upper Body, Tuesdays - Lower Body and Core, Wednesday - Rest, Thursday - Upper Body, Friday - Lower Body and Core, Saturday - Rest, Sunday - Rest. Or some variation of that. Do your running however you like, but you want at least two days of rest after working a muscle group to allow it to repair itself naturally unless you are doing roids.
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Why should OP cut back? wrote:
Runningart2004 wrote:
Are you on steroids? No? Then why are you lifting 6 days a week?
Stick to 4 days a week upper/lower or push/pull split. Or even 3 days a week total body.
Alan
OP did not say he or she runs for a team. Since no teammates are counting on OP's racing performances, there is nothing wrong with OP lifting x 6 days per week. Running 30-40 miles a week of mileage plus weight training x 6 days a week is a great way to cut body fat percentage.
True, but it comes with side effects. Even if you manage to avoid injury, you're gonna deal with elevated cortisol, which in turn, inhibits fat burning and retaining lean body mass. You might end up bloated, having this water/puffy look around midsection, and weighting more than before. Never forget how hormones can affect you workout schedule. -
hormones wrote:
Why should OP cut back? wrote:
Runningart2004 wrote:
Are you on steroids? No? Then why are you lifting 6 days a week?
Stick to 4 days a week upper/lower or push/pull split. Or even 3 days a week total body.
Alan
OP did not say he or she runs for a team. Since no teammates are counting on OP's racing performances, there is nothing wrong with OP lifting x 6 days per week. Running 30-40 miles a week of mileage plus weight training x 6 days a week is a great way to cut body fat percentage.
True, but it comes with side effects. Even if you manage to avoid injury, you're gonna deal with elevated cortisol, which in turn, inhibits fat burning and retaining lean body mass. You might end up bloated, having this water/puffy look around midsection, and weighting more than before. Never forget how hormones can affect you workout schedule.
Most people shouldn’t lift 6 days a week regardless of goal. College football players lift 4 days a week.
Most people who follow a 6 week schedule follow a “bodybuilding” split using one muscle area a day. Chest day, back day, leg day and so on. This is flawed because you should be ready to hit that same muscle within 48-72 hrs. The less experience you have the easier you can recover simply because you don’t have the recruitment ability that a more experienced lifter has.
Now, a 6 day push/pull or upper/lower split might work for a true novice at first. You woukd be each workout 3x a week bs 2x.
As far as general fitness and athleticism I would advise something like this:
http://www.huskers.com/pdf8/836632.pdf
Now they do something a little different. They will do basically lower push-upper pull / lower pull-upper push.
It’s all the same ultimately:
1. Work each area twice a week.
2. Incorporate power and explosive work.
3. Use linear progression.
4. Put most important lifts first.
5. Most important lifts go heavy.
6. Do some running, sprints, hills, whatever you want for aerobic and anaerobic conditioning or skill work. All depends on your goal.
Alan
