60 mpw all at 7 pace, but haven't run a Sub 3 Marathon

New
  • Puzzlement
    1 year ago 01/13/2019 6:33pm CST
    Forum Index
    I'm very puzzled by this guy on strava. He had run some very long LR, at around 7 pace. Actually he run most of his runs at around 7 pace, and mostly below. Especially recently he's been running around 60 mpw almost all at Sub 7pace. But the guy's Marathon PR is slower than 3.

    Granted his Marathon PR is dated, but back during the days leading to his Marathon PR, he was doing similar things.

    For the life of me I can't believe how this can happen. My marathon pace feels pretty hard for me, and I can't imagine myself running my MP day after day at 60mpw.
  • stress adaptation
    1 year ago 01/14/2019 3:05pm CST
    re: Puzzlement
    Forum Index
    you say long run but not how long, there is a difference between a two hour LR near 7:00 pace and three hours at 6:50, especially after 20 miles facing glycogen bonk

    when you look at their marathon on strava, compare the miles before 20 and after, did they fail to break 3 because their pace fell off a cliff after that point?

    also, some people also don't race well mentally, but that can be fixed with practice
  • Hammer every run
    1 year ago 01/14/2019 3:09pm CST
    re: Puzzlement
    Forum Index
    I'd bet that his daily run is a pretty good effort every day. He needs to take easy days and hard days. If he's running at a pretty good effort every day for 5-10 miles, obviously he can't run that same pace for 26 miles if it's already a pretty good effort every day to run that speed for a quarter of that distance.
  • Hob jog
    1 year ago 01/14/2019 7:16pm CST
    re: Hammer every run
    Forum Index
    The majority of runners (joggers) follow that training routine. They run for fun, not to race.
  • why ask
    1 year ago 01/14/2019 7:24pm CST
    re: Puzzlement
    Forum Index
    Why do his activities particularly concern you?
  • Look at his splits
    1 year ago 01/14/2019 7:59pm CST
    re: Puzzlement
    Forum Index
    My guess is he went out way too fast and blew up.

    Never assume a marathon time is based on a perfectly executed race.
  • saw opposite
    1 year ago 01/14/2019 9:00pm CST
    re: Puzzlement
    Forum Index
    I know someone that consistently runs 50 mpw about 15 s/mile slower than their marathon pace. This too blows my mind. I rarely see him run faster than MP. I don't get it.
  • SprintTriathlon
    registered
    1 year ago 01/14/2019 9:06pm CST
    re: why ask
    Forum Index
    why ask wrote:

    Why do his activities particularly concern you?


    Why do you ask him why he ask?
  • All joggers donut
    1 year ago 01/14/2019 9:06pm CST
    re: saw opposite
    Forum Index
    I know many women who jog 8 minute pace and run 24 minutes for 5k races. They would probably run 8:30 pace for a marathon.
  • Post-college guy
    1 year ago 01/14/2019 10:39pm CST
    re: Puzzlement
    Forum Index
    In college, one year:

    Not running for the team, I was running -

    Hour at 6:45 pace every a.m.

    90 minutes Sundays on trails (Boulder).

    5x1K at 255-3:00 Wednesdays.

    And never raced. I was 19. What times COULD I have run?
  • well actually
    1 year ago 01/14/2019 10:50pm CST
    re: Puzzlement
    Forum Index
    This is a weird thread and creepy op.
  • y???
    1 year ago 01/14/2019 10:53pm CST
    re: well actually
    Forum Index
    Its creepy he notices the paces of someone on his Strava feed. It's trivial to see them. Can be a bit difficult to not see them.
  • newgier
    1 year ago 01/14/2019 11:42pm CST
    re: y???
    Forum Index
    y??? wrote:

    Its creepy he notices the paces of someone on his Strava feed. It's trivial to see them. Can be a bit difficult to not see them.


    And the OP's question is interesting for people who don't want to be that guy.
  • not that weird
    1 year ago 01/14/2019 11:49pm CST
    re: Puzzlement
    Forum Index
    Coming out of college I was doing 60-70mpw, got my long run up to 21 miles at 6:30 pace, almost all running was well under 7 pace except easy/recovery days, and when it came to marathon day I could never hold sub-3 pace in 3 different attempts. Probably a combo of me being a headcase, poor hydration/nutrition, and some bad luck, but I can relate to OP's guy.

    I've never understood the people who think marathon pace feels hard. It feels easy to me and I still can't hold it for 26 miles. No idea how you could do that running at a pace that feels anything other than very comfortable.
  • Ackley
    registered
    1 year ago 01/15/2019 5:31am CST
    re: not that weird
    Forum Index
    not that weird wrote:

    Coming out of college I was doing 60-70mpw, got my long run up to 21 miles at 6:30 pace, almost all running was well under 7 pace except easy/recovery days, and when it came to marathon day I could never hold sub-3 pace in 3 different attempts. Probably a combo of me being a headcase, poor hydration/nutrition, and some bad luck, but I can relate to OP's guy.

    I've never understood the people who think marathon pace feels hard. It feels easy to me and I still can't hold it for 26 miles. No idea how you could do that running at a pace that feels anything other than very comfortable.


    I find these posts to be not believable, especially if the sub-3 failures are not blow-up/huge negative split races. According to the McMillan Calculator, the long run referenced above was "21 Miles at 20k Pace" or a longer version of a notorious former LRC visitor's "5 Miles at 5k" pace workout.
  • stress adaptation
    1 year ago 01/15/2019 6:46am CST
    re: not that weird
    Forum Index
    not that weird wrote:

    I've never understood the people who think marathon pace feels hard. It feels easy to me and I still can't hold it for 26 miles. No idea how you could do that running at a pace that feels anything other than very comfortable.


    if the pace for any race feels "easy" you are racing wrong, it's not a long-run

    but if you are blowing up after 20-22 miles it's glycogen bonk and you are fueling wrong before/during marathon

    then there is a LT wall which would mean your pace was too fast in a marathon and ran yourself to muscle fatigue

    once you have consistent half-marathon times, it should be easily possible to predict proper marathon pace

    and for those saying its "creepy" to observe another runner publicly posting their runs on strava, I don't get it - there is nothing wrong with trying to learn from others success and failures in their training if they are going to share them openly
  • wut i tink...
    1 year ago 01/15/2019 7:02am CST
    re: not that weird
    Forum Index
    not that weird wrote:I've never understood the people who think marathon pace feels hard.

    When marathon pace feels subjectively easy, it is a near-sure sign you are not well-trained for the marathon. When you are properly trained, and have very good aerobic fitness, your race paces will cluster relatively closely together, meaning that your M-pace gets that much closer to top speed. It should feel like a very strong, brisk pace when you are marathon-fit. That won't mean you won't be able to do long runs with big chunks at M-pace (you will be able to do them, and it will feel invigorating), but it will feel like strong "work," and not feel anything like subjectively "easy."

    That'll be $0.02. And you're welcome!
  • longjack
    1 year ago 01/15/2019 11:04pm CST
    re: Puzzlement
    Forum Index
    try improving the quality, say with 40 miles per week.

    do two hard workouts per week, one on the track and one in the hills.

    do 3 x 1km full recovery up a step hill. one workout

    another on the track do mile repeats, say 4 under 6 minutes. full recovery

    on the easy days two days after the hard stuff do 2 x 3 miles at 630 pace.

    forget the long run for a while.

    do this schedule for 4 months.

    come back with 60 miles a week easy stuff at 650 type pace.
    and two hard days per week, run like 10 k at 630.
    and you want the long run of 2 hours plus.

    on the easy days, if you're not feeling it, go slow.
    make sure you recover.
  • longjack
    1 year ago 01/15/2019 11:06pm CST
    re: longjack
    Forum Index
    on the quality days, you want to be totally knackered at the end.
    on the easy days, really focus on recovery.
    you can take a day off here and there.
    probably once per week is optimal

    that's the "secret"
  • longjack
    1 year ago 01/15/2019 11:08pm CST
    re: longjack
    Forum Index
    regarding getting past 20 miles, if you are comfortable running at a quicker pace. then you can graduate to 65 minute 10 mile runs. or do your long runs at 640 mile pace.

    then at 7 minute pace, you won't crash at 20 miles ..