Running expert must eat his words...

The key word here is “best-trained”

She's kind of like a chess expert who decides she enjoys checkers more.

YMMV wrote:

"If you have the best-trained male and female ultrarunners competing against each other, the men will always win." -Dr. Martin Hoffeman.

Still true. You train a man to an equivilent level of conditioning and he will always win. It is a biological fact.

Courtney and Camille are exceptional runners but they're no match for the best men on their equally good days.

The 24h track record for men is a full marathon further at 188 miles to 162 when Kouros set it and even when I took part in a 24h track race last year the winning man ran 166 miles so there's no real comparison there to be fair.

Likewise Camille's Comrades time is an hour off the men's winner and then Courtney Vs Walmsley at Western States wasn't even close as she was 3 hours behind Him and behind some pretty modest runners like Jeff Browning.

The reality for most cases is that neither are close to the leading men's times despite how incredible their performances are in context.

Still seems like 7-10 percent difference at every distance from sprints to ultras. After Kouros (always a statistical outlier) however, Herron is only about 6 percent behind all others, so she is breathing some rare air.

His statement is correct.

YMMV must eat his words.

But you won't

Nope wrote:

Courtney and Camille are exceptional runners but they're no match for the best men on their equally good days.

Camille is. She outran Zach Bitter and Pat Reagan, two of the best 100 milers. 24 hours goes to another level mentally. It will be fun to see how she does with more experience and against the best men 24 hour runners.

Sample sizes are too small.

YMMV wrote:

"If you have the best-trained male and female ultrarunners competing against each other, the men will always win." -Dr. Martin Hoffman

The weekend that article released, the male and female trail 100-mile record-holders lined up together on the start of the Desert Solstice 24-Hour. Most of you know how it turned out.

Never, ever, be quoted saying "always" about anything.

You are an idiot and or can't read.

Just because C.Herron won a 24 hour race does not mean she is better than all men.

Hoffmann said: "If you have the best trained male and female ultrarunners..."

Since these track 24 hour races just have a small sample of runners, of course there is a good chance that a women can win, if top women show up and top men don't.

Herron's record is 13-14% lower than Yiannis Kouros. You could call it a soft record but some people think Kouros is the outlier here.

Yes the logic is sound. A female won our 5k turkey trot in 19 minutes which proves that women are better than men in the 5k also. When Serena beats McEnroe, it will prove that women are better than men at tennis.

Reality checker wrote:

Since these track 24 hour races just have a small sample of runners, of course there is a good chance that a women can win, if top women show up and top men don't.

Herron's record is 13-14% lower than Yiannis Kouros. You could call it a soft record but some people think Kouros is the outlier here.

Reagan and Bitter both won 100 mile races soon before, and yet Herron beat them in her first 24 hour race nonetheless. It took many years for Kouros to reach 188 miles. We're looking at a female outlier, much like Kouros, who can compete with some of the best men (not named Kouros).

I'm confused...the results clearly have a man listed as the top finisher. why are you guys talking about herron winning? she didn't win...

Click on 24 hours. Bitter dropped and Herron continued on.

If the top male marathoners focused on ultras, they would make a mockery out of these men and women.

Goggins is spot-on.. he says he is soft because he can't physically push himself to run faster, so he EXTENDS his distance to make it less about speed. It's why he says he has mad respect for Kipchoge because that strength of mind to make the body go faster he just hasn't tapped into (although he said he sort've tapped it in Vegas BQ).

re tar Ed wrote:

I'm confused...the results clearly have a man listed as the top finisher. why are you guys talking about herron winning? she didn't win...

You are looking at the wrong results

But wait. According to Rojo and the teenage boy experts at Letsrun. No female could ever beat a male at ANYTHING.

Lol at all the spergs jumping out of the weeds on this. "small sample size! Yannos Kouros! If the East Africans ran these...!*splutter splutter*..."

If you portray yourself as an "expert", at least have the humility or at least the common sense NEVER to say ALWAYS. The comedy gold is that he got nailed on the very weekend of publication. The Dr. dude got "chicked", big time.

The man was foolish enough to say "always", and then the VERY DAY his quote comes out, Camille wins easily. Zach and Camille are both the 100-mile record holders, so by definition among the "best-trained". And of course Patrick and Courtney qualify in that area as well. Arguably the real "upset" here is that Courtney didn't win the whole thing, as she is the most experienced at this sort of thing.

Of course the fastest men on their best day will beat the fastest women on their best day, but that is not what he said. On any given day in any given race, SH!T HAPPENS. And that goes 100x for a race past 100 miles. That's why the awards are handed out after the race, not before.

Courtney and Camille deserve every bit of the press they are getting, as they keep showing up ready to get the job done on even terms, and continue to defy the "experts". When you are on the extremes of human endeavor, it's the size of the fight in the dog, not the size of the dog.