New article on Transgender Connecticut sprinter

rojo wrote:

ghfhdbb wrote:

So you wrote that tweet calling her stupid. Classy move Robert.

A white privileged clueless trust fund baby will certainly lose that debate.

So because I'm white and fairly well off (no trust fund unfortunately), I'm not allowed to point out stupidity? So if someone says there is no proof that 2+2 is 5, I can't point out that's wrong and say an editor shouldn't have allowed it to be published simply because I'm white and not poor.

What is your cutoff for race and income? If I'm only 7/8ths white, can I say it? What's the income level? $984,000 and below?

I mean Obama had a white mother and made $984,000 in 2006 - a TON more than I've ever made in a year - and I know you wouldn't rip him for saying it.

It demonstrates you are clueless on this topic. Do you know any trans people ?

Insult the writer mean you don’t want to debate. You just want to ridicule.

I point out your race wealth because it reflects a lack of perspective and empathy. Obama has empathy. Not you.

You can comment but honestly only the dumb white teenage boys with think your great.

rojo wrote:

https://twitter.com/letsrundotcom/status/1075370799530422278

The interesting thing about that chart is that FloJo's 10.49 was almost certainly wind-aided. Aside from that record, the fastest time ever run by a woman is 10.61. Which is right about 90 percent.

Also, FloJo and Marita Koch, the two highest numbers on that list were almost certainly using steroids out of competition and benefitted greatly from their effects. The same can't be said of Bolt and van Niekerk with near the level of certainty.

Thanks to Kipchoge, the marathon difference rounds out to almost exactly 90 percent (.8988). I would also argue that Paula's use of male rabbits through almost the entire race, where Kipchoge only had rabbits to 30K also aided her. I don't know if she would have run much faster in the breaking-2 scenario on that same day.

Yes you hate wrote:

That has nothing to do with the truth. That’s pure hate.

That's all you got? You can't talk about the genetics or the hormones or the physics?

Democrats go by their emotion instead of common sense, so all you can do is accuse us of being "haters".

You are insane if you want males who are bigger, faster, and stronger to demolish female records. You might as well allow handicapped people in wheelchairs to use a motorcycle in a marathon to be "inclusive, tolerant, and diverse" because of your "feelings". This is the Democrat way of destroying traditional values.

I have a friend who is a reporter and a long-form writer, so I forwarded her this article and asked her opinion. This is what she wrote back:

"I'm surprised her editor went ahead and published this piece in its current state. The author makes several claims in the article that can be easily disproved using a simple google search. She does not seem interested in the complexity of the situation, only in advancing and advocating a perspective she clearly held before starting this project. It's a shame because this could have been a really important and insightful piece, tackling the experience of transgender athletes."

Fgggghh wrote:

It demonstrates you are clueless on this topic. Do you know any trans people ?

Insult the writer mean you don’t want to debate. You just want to ridicule.

I point out your race wealth because it reflects a lack of perspective and empathy. Obama has empathy. Not you.

You can comment but honestly only the dumb white teenage boys with think your great.

How did you derive Rojo's lack of perspective and empathy from his race/wealth? Also, honestly, how do you know that only dumb white teenage boys think he's great? (I'm not necessarily arguing the last point because it's likely true but you have no basis from which to draw that conclusion.)

When you draw conclusions based on gut feelings, without any support, then you are just a guilty as the posters you are arguing against. The only difference is that the posters are not attempting to wiggle their way onto some moral high ground like you are.

Rojo clearly has shown empathy by stating that he has respect for this and other trans girls wanting to compete in T&F. As a matter of fact, he has stated several times on this message board that he has disdain for others who refuse to use the correct pronoun when discussing trans athletes.

His, and most other athletes on this message board, have a very clear line of distinction in these instances - there is no possible way that an argument can be made to say that a trans girl, with external or internal testes does not have an unfair advantage against natural born girls. It can't be done, period, full stop. People don't need to know any Trans people, they don't have to like or dislike them, they only have to believe the science behind what is fair and unfair in women's sports.

So, let's take that off the table and make the argument about why this particular girl should have an unfair advantage in competing against other girls. So far all I've implicated from the article in question is that because she would be such a bad boy sprinter she may not have an inherent advantage against the girls (maybe low testosterone levels as a boy). This would be a very individualistic approach to the problem. As others have stated, what happens when a very capable boy wants to compete against the girls as a trans person?

I personally haven't heard any good arguments yet because there is already an open division (male) but, who knows, there might be. But, we'll likely never know because people like you will drag the conversation down to a bunch of unsupported assumptions about those that question this issue.

Funny you are doing everything you accuse me of doing.

Give me a break. Very few are interested in a legit conversation about this. As I pointed out, many boys here went to accusations like she’s just making it or accusing her of cheating (when she’s following the CT rules). Not trying to understand her personal situation.

Rojo instead of a discussion called the author an idiot. Now tell me how respectful they are being?

We are told constantly that high school sports shouldn’t be soleyabout winning or losing. It’s about being part of a team. Feeling like you belong, learning from training, pushing yourself etc. Most HS kids aren’t going pro or even D1, D2, D3.

They are gaining from the experience

She wouldn’t get that running for a boys team.

I think a solution is out there. Im not part of the problem It’s people like most here who want an all or nothing solution. Im open to compromise. You aren’t

Btw none of my conclusions are based on feelings. But you and your kind’s are but can’t see it.

This is your statement "It’s about being part of a team. Feeling like you belong, learning from training, pushing yourself etc". Those are the values that are being destroyed here. Girls are going to feel like they belong nowhere if boys can switch teams and take the medals from the girls. They are being made to feel that is doesn't matter how hard they push themselves because girls' sports were essentially eliminated.

Hmmm, maybe I am?

This seems like a feeling. I don't think there would be a single person here that wouldn't agree with you on the first part of your feelings. That is what HS sports should be all about. How you know she wouldn't get that from running on a boys team is a feeling. It's likely a correct feeling but a feeling none the less. So let's stop asserting as if your conclusions are based on facts. Rather it would be more conducive to say; "While my conclusions are based on feelings, I believe that she wouldn't get that from running on a boys team." Put that way I would tend to agree with you. Stating it as a fact and I would divert focus to whether that was really a fact or not. How would she feel running on a team comprised of boys and girls? Is she only running against girls because she likes the thrill of victory or is she running because she likes the process required to compete. Would she give up if she ran against the boys because she would not be competitive? Is she using her success against the girls in an effort to raise awareness? I'm not sure any of these scenarios have been discussed. I think most of the articles about her have been mainly one sided: she's a girl, she races against girls, and if anybody complains then they have a problem. As the author of the article clearly missed, it's more problematic than that because other girls are involved.

Rojo also said that for being so young she is very accomplished. Missed that gem didn't you? In Rojo parlance, she is an idiot because she missed the most basic issue swirling about this situation - competitive advantages between the sexes in sport.

It's likely impossible to have a legit conversation about this when you're incapable of trying to understand the other side of the table's concerns as well. A vast majority here (avoid taking the trolls to heart) don't want her to stop running, we are all fans of running. It really just boils down to; is it fair for her to use her natural born advantages against other girls?

Since we know it isn't who should bear the burden of letting her compete? There is a cost to that and it is being forced on the girls. If most can agree that it isn't fair then a solution might be to run a separate category, run the boys divisions, let her compete against girls but not at championship meets, or let her compete without any limitations, and so on. NOT included in those potential solutions was SHE CAN'T COMPETE!

Because, at least for me and many others here, I don't not want her to miss out on the joys of running, being part of a team, and experiencing the joys/sorrows of competing. There really is nothing better in this world regardless of your pronoun.

This is a slippery slope.

If you have no problem with a man pretending to be a woman, then you shouldn't have a problem with a woman marrying a chandelier.

https://www.insideedition.com/love-first-light-woman-gets-engaged-her-chandelier-i-love-kissing-and-cuddling-lumiere-38681

What's next? A robot being allowed to compete on the sports team because of your "feelings"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoQuVnKhxaM&t=48

All of you are idiots if you want to deny there is a mental illness component.

https://www.va.gov/health/NewsFeatures/2017/January/Transgender-Vets-the-VA-and-Respect.asp

"...transgender Vets are 20 times more likely to attempt suicide than other Veterans."

These are confused, depressed humans who are acting out of the ordinary. You cannot just blame society for this. You cannot just say it's everyone else's fault except for the transgender person.

Athlete Oscar de la Hoya admitted to cross-dressing but also that he was suicidal and did drugs.

http://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_/id/6912225/oscar-de-la-hoya-admits-addictions-tv-interview

"Former boxing champion Oscar De La Hoya said in a television interview that he had thought about suicide and has been going to rehab because he has become dependent on drugs and alcohol."

https://img.thedailybeast.com/image/upload/c_crop,d_placeholder_euli9k,h_675,w_1200,x_0,y_0/dpr_2.0/c_limit,w_740/fl_lossy,q_auto/v1493052994/articles/2011/11/11/oscar-de-la-hoya-what-may-be-behind-cross-dressing-rumors/oscar-de-la-hoya-cross-dressing-schwartz-tease_dx5zwj

As a woman who ran on the men's team in the early title IX years I find this argument absurd. No one is depriving transgender the high school team experience. Most of the "experience" is in practice, sitting with your team (which now are basically co-ed). The only time the genders are separate is the actual race. What most posters want is a fair competition. The reasons why it is not a fair competition have been spelled out by other posters. The "experience" being given to these teenagers is not the high school sport experience. If Andraya ran as a male she would not be the subject of national attention.

Our Hs teams are totally separate. They don’t even compete at the same meets. I still agree you with you though. I wouldn’t want my daughter sharing a locker room with this person.

Yes, wait until Transgenders spill over into the boxing world. What are they going to say then, when women are literally being rendered comatose by biological men who are much faster and more powerful than they are. And in an arena where "defeat" often has disabling and disfiguring consequences.

All the theoretical bullshit being spouted by clueless opinion piece writers will soon be revealed for what it really is when high profile instances of "beaten" women having their features permanently rearranged and/or their brains turned to mush start to hit the headlines.

"The room was equipped with cookies, coloring books, bubbles, Play-Doh, calming music, pillows, blankets..." Democrats go by emotion instead of common sense. That's why they need safe spaces.

Democrats need "emotional support" animals on airplanes because they're too scared or depressed.

Democrats use insults instead of logic.

It's plain to see that leftists can only talk about "haters" when defending transgenders in sports because all they know is emotion for "inclusivity, tolerance, and diversity" for their version of "peace, cooperation, and teamwork". They ignore the facts, logic, and common sense.

early female runner wrote:

As a woman who ran on the men's team in the early title IX years I find this argument absurd. No one is depriving transgender the high school team experience. Most of the "experience" is in practice, sitting with your team (which now are basically co-ed). The only time the genders are separate is the actual race. What most posters want is a fair competition. The reasons why it is not a fair competition have been spelled out by other posters. The "experience" being given to these teenagers is not the high school sport experience. If Andraya ran as a male she would not be the subject of national attention.

I'd agree with you except for the last sentence. Instead of running as a male, Andraya should run as a female in a men's race. If Mo'ne Davis is praised for competing in the Little League WS, then a high school girl competing against boys should be an inspiring story as well.

And I would take it one step further. We should eliminate all "male" divisions. There should be only two divisions, female and "Open." The latter should welcome everyone including cis female. (But no should be able to compete in both at the same time.) Any MTF athlete should be treated as "female competing in the Open division."

If you are more interested in the fair competition than vilifying transgender people, why would you have any problem with this solution?

When it comes to athletic endeavour shemales will always have an advantage over females.

Fgghghh wrote:

We are told constantly that high school sports shouldn’t be soleyabout winning or losing. It’s about being part of a team. Feeling like you belong, learning from training, pushing yourself etc. Most HS kids aren’t going pro or even D1, D2, D3.

They are gaining from the experience

Track and field involves winning and losing. It has a championship season and this requires fair competition.

Fgghghh wrote:

She wouldn’t get that running for a boys team.

Boo hoo then. Join the drama club. Maybe it's a good lesson for high schoolers to learn, that the other 99% of society isn't required to comply with your fetish.

rojo wrote:

People, this isn't that hard to understand. Only people trying to be intellectual could screw the understanding of this topic up.

The following two posters nailed it.

Bonkers wrote:

I fervently believe that a person's gender identity can be different from their biological sex, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

BUT

We separate sports participants based on biology, not identity, and there is a very good reason for that. If we didn't have separate sports opportunities for women, then women's sports would not exist.

and

For Some Reason wrote:

Ruining the integrity of young women's track events and depriving women of legitimate opportunities to earn sports championships sure sounds like an anti-feminist position, doesn't it? Some well-intentioned people are quite confused.

Agree. Also, I would add that "boys'" and "men's" competitions should simply be labeled "open," and girls' and women's should be limited to biological females.

If transgender individuals (male to female) wish to compete, they can race in the "open" division. Unfortunately, competing apparently isn't enough for some of these people. It seems more about winning. And getting attention.

early female runner wrote:

As a woman who ran on the men's team in the early title IX years I find this argument absurd. No one is depriving transgender the high school team experience. Most of the "experience" is in practice, sitting with your team (which now are basically co-ed). The only time the genders are separate is the actual race. What most posters want is a fair competition. The reasons why it is not a fair competition have been spelled out by other posters. The "experience" being given to these teenagers is not the high school sport experience. If Andraya ran as a male she would not be the subject of national attention.

You are a sick individual. Did you tun with the boys because you wanted to be one or for attention. Are you homosexual today?

Who said life was fair? Seriously.

You are just racist and transphobic. No wonder you are divorced and alone posting on a teen message board c

facts and reason wrote:

You are insane if you want males who are bigger, faster, and stronger to demolish female records. You might as well allow handicapped people in wheelchairs to use a motorcycle in a marathon to be "inclusive, tolerant, and diverse" because of your "feelings". This is the Democrat way of destroying traditional values.

It’s a small point but wheelchair athletes don’t need motorcycles to spank everyone at all distances from the marathon down to the 800m.