Actually, it seems ever year they have the qualifications for getting the bids but then they are never chosen - look at the flower mound boy this year their number one guy was sick and that prevented them from the second place spot and if you go back to last year the Hebron girls placed 2nd at state behind Keller and beat south lake yet at nike they lost behind south lake and Keller by a very small margin but they weren't even considered for a bid this is outrageous.
?
I heard crying about it helps
running1000000 wrote:
Actually, it seems ever year they have the qualifications for getting the bids but then they are never chosen - look at the flower mound boy this year their number one guy was sick and that prevented them from the second place spot and if you go back to last year the Hebron girls placed 2nd at state behind Keller and beat south lake yet at nike they lost behind south lake and Keller by a very small margin but they weren't even considered for a bid this is outrageous.
Every third place team has a "coulda Shoulda woulda".
I'm still sore about my team's 2014 spot. 1 point behind second d and our #3 was out from a stress fracture.
Nike's playground, they get to decide who plays.
Look at Dyestat rankings. That is what the committee believes. Never has a Texas boys team been overrated. The past rankings speak for themselves. These rankings are prior to NXN. Don't even get me started on their individual rankings.
The thing that pisses me off the most, is that the Texas State champs for the boys have missed out on NXN two years in a row. When was the last time a non-Texas team went to NXN? Tuledo girls, in a year where they didn't even have regional qualifiers and overestimated that team? The Woodlands won state in 2017 and 2018, against top teams like Flower Mound, Southlake Carroll, and so forth, but bombed out at the Nike South regional meet both years. It was particularly frustrating because I thought for sure the Woodlands team in 2017 was a top 10 finisher if they didn't have a poor race. Can't say how good they were in 2018 comparatively speaking.
I am a bit upset that Flower Mound didn't get a bid for 2018. I mean, it's not like they didn't finish 14th last year and return 5 guys including their #1-#2 who are elite on a national level. I mean, as we saw at Footlocker South, where Texans dominated despite many top runners not running... Seriously, Texas goes #1-#2-#8 on the boys race, when we didn't even have Alex Maier (state champ), Jarrett Kirk (NXN South champ / last year state champ), Ryan Schoppe, and many more.
2017
Ranking: FM 23rd and SLC 26th.
Actual: FM finished 14th, SLC 19th.
2016
Ranking: The Woodlands 12, SLC 22, College Park unranked in to p30
Actual: The Woodlands 8th, SLC 11, CP 21
2015
Ranking: The Woodlands 10, SLC 30
Actual: The Woodlands 6, SLC 16
2014
Ranking: SLC 27, The Woodlands 29
Actual: SLC 19, The Woodlands 22
2013
Ranking: SLC 29, Hebron unranked in top 40
Actual: SLC 14, Hebron 21
the truth hurtz wrote:
Look at Dyestat rankings. That is what the committee believes. Never has a Texas boys team been overrated. The past rankings speak for themselves. These rankings are prior to NXN. Don't even get me started on their individual rankings.
The thing that pisses me off the most, is that the Texas State champs for the boys have missed out on NXN two years in a row. When was the last time a non-Texas team went to NXN? Tuledo girls, in a year where they didn't even have regional qualifiers and overestimated that team? The Woodlands won state in 2017 and 2018, against top teams like Flower Mound, Southlake Carroll, and so forth, but bombed out at the Nike South regional meet both years. It was particularly frustrating because I thought for sure the Woodlands team in 2017 was a top 10 finisher if they didn't have a poor race. Can't say how good they were in 2018 comparatively speaking.
I am a bit upset that Flower Mound didn't get a bid for 2018. I mean, it's not like they didn't finish 14th last year and return 5 guys including their #1-#2 who are elite on a national level. I mean, as we saw at Footlocker South, where Texans dominated despite many top runners not running... Seriously, Texas goes #1-#2-#8 on the boys race, when we didn't even have Alex Maier (state champ), Jarrett Kirk (NXN South champ / last year state champ), Ryan Schoppe, and many more.
2017
Ranking: FM 23rd and SLC 26th.
Actual: FM finished 14th, SLC 19th.
2016
Ranking: The Woodlands 12, SLC 22, College Park unranked in to p30
Actual: The Woodlands 8th, SLC 11, CP 21
2015
Ranking: The Woodlands 10, SLC 30
Actual: The Woodlands 6, SLC 16
2014
Ranking: SLC 27, The Woodlands 29
Actual: SLC 19, The Woodlands 22
2013
Ranking: SLC 29, Hebron unranked in top 40
Actual: SLC 14, Hebron 21
They don't go based off Dyestat rankings, so forget about those.
Plus I'm sure in your list there, there were teams infront of them who didn't make it. Look at all the California teams that didn't make it this year they are ranked. Only helps the placement of the teams that do go.
the truth hurtz wrote:
2017
Ranking: FM 23rd and SLC 26th.
Actual: FM finished 14th, SLC 19th.
2016
Ranking: The Woodlands 12, SLC 22, College Park unranked in to p30
Actual: The Woodlands 8th, SLC 11, CP 21
2015
Ranking: The Woodlands 10, SLC 30
Actual: The Woodlands 6, SLC 16
2014
Ranking: SLC 27, The Woodlands 29
Actual: SLC 19, The Woodlands 22
2013
Ranking: SLC 29, Hebron unranked in top 40
Actual: SLC 14, Hebron 21
The fact that in 3 out of the last 5 years a team from Texas got last or second-to-last at NXN shows that they were NOT underrated. If a team ranked outside the top 30 makes NXN only to bring up the rear, that just shows that the region as a whole is weaker. I agree that Flower Mound definitely had an argument this year (the same one that gave the Saratoga girls an at-large last year despite a poor performance with Chmiel sick at regionals). However, recent Texas history is not as impressive as you make it seem.
Just check the yearly results of Texas schools at NXN. They have had a few teams run really well, but they have had a lot of teams in the last few places more times than not.
Here is data from '05 to '12 when we were looking for at-large data (girls) -
o 2012 – Woodlands – 21st of 22 teams
o 2011 – Kingwood – 17th of 22 teams
o 2010 – Carroll – 22nd of 22 teams
o 2009 –Kingwood & Carroll – 16th and 22nd of 22 teams
o 2008 – Woodlands – 22nd of 22 teams
o 2007 – Carroll – 18th of 22 teams
o 2005 – Kingwood – 16th of 20 teams
don't forget the Hebron girls got 8th in 2014
They should move Texas to the South West region so that Texas teams can clearly see that they don't deserve a bid and stop complaining.
Too bad wrote:
I heard crying about it helps
You are an autistic moron with a brain that is completely full of bullish*t.
Your website sucks.
Have a nice day.
The South has had 4 boys At-Large invites since regional qualifiers began. Four regions have had more, and four regions have had less. Doesn't seem like the South is being singled out there.
On the girls side, the South has been further down with only 3 At-Large invites. Five regions have had more, and only two regions (NW and HL) have had less. Considering the South girls AQ teams have been the least competitive, I'm not sure that qualifies as singling the South girls out either.
the truth hurtz wrote:
Look at Dyestat rankings. That is what the committee believes. Never has a Texas boys team been overrated. The past rankings speak for themselves. These rankings are prior to NXN. Don't even get me started on their individual rankings.
The thing that pisses me off the most, is that the Texas State champs for the boys have missed out on NXN two years in a row. When was the last time a non-Texas team went to NXN? Tuledo girls, in a year where they didn't even have regional qualifiers and overestimated that team? The Woodlands won state in 2017 and 2018, against top teams like Flower Mound, Southlake Carroll, and so forth, but bombed out at the Nike South regional meet both years. It was particularly frustrating because I thought for sure the Woodlands team in 2017 was a top 10 finisher if they didn't have a poor race. Can't say how good they were in 2018 comparatively speaking.
I don't think the committee cares where Dyestat has teams ranked, nor Milesplit or any other rankings out there. Any of those rankings are not necessarily going to be representative of what the NXN Committee believes.
Texas teams have been overrated, and Texas teams have been underrated, same as any region. Maybe not by Dyestat or Milesplit lately, but it's happened in the past. Pretty sure Dyestat had Cedar Park ranked #1 for most of the season in 2009 when watchout was doing the rankings. I don't remember where they were ranked on the eve of NXN but they finished #11. Seems like he did the same with The Woodlands a couple years, and some of the Southlake Carroll girls teams.
I'm not sure what your point is about teams from outside of Texas qualifying from the South. Texas is home to the regional meet, has always been clearly the strongest state in the NXN region and probably the whole FLS region, so why would it be surprising or a concern that pretty much all the teams that qualify are from Texas? As for your question, though, it was probably Rogers AR in 2007. I think Arkansas had another team that qualified or almost qualified one year (Bentonville?), but sure it's usually a near clean sweep for Texas schools among the Top 4. Other regions have pretty dominant states as well: Minnesota in the Heartland, Illinois in the Midwest, Virginia in the Southeast, New Jersey in the Northeast, Washington (boys only) in the Northwest have typically dominated their regions as well.
The Woodlands 2017 finished fourth in their region. If they were to get an invite, it would have to be after El Paso Eastwood also got an invite. Did the South deserve two at-large invites that year? Flower Mound finished #14 and solidly mid-pack and Southlake Carroll finished #19 and well out of the running. Should the South have gotten At-Large spots at the expense of the Southwest (#21 and #8 by order of NXN finish) or California (#9)? You could argue the Southeast spot (#22), but that alone wouldn't have be enough to include Texas 6A Champion The Woodlands and what about the other teams that were left home that might have been able to do better (MW#3 Lyons Township IL, for example)?
True to your name on here, "the truth hurtz", and the truth is that there are a lot of teams that have arguments, and sometimes good teams get left out, but the South hasn't been unfairly overlooked/excluded any more than other regions.
NXN Fan wrote:
Just check the yearly results of Texas schools at NXN. They have had a few teams run really well, but they have had a lot of teams in the last few places more times than not.
Here is data from '05 to '12 when we were looking for at-large data (girls) -
o 2012 – Woodlands – 21st of 22 teams
o 2011 – Kingwood – 17th of 22 teams
o 2010 – Carroll – 22nd of 22 teams
o 2009 –Kingwood & Carroll – 16th and 22nd of 22 teams
o 2008 – Woodlands – 22nd of 22 teams
o 2007 – Carroll – 18th of 22 teams
o 2005 – Kingwood – 16th of 20 teams
I noticed you used the girls, for some strange reasons, but anyone can go back to 2016 when the Woodland Boys received an invite, and they finished 8th place overall.
jesus__ wrote:
The fact that in 3 out of the last 5 years a team from Texas got last or second-to-last at NXN shows that they were NOT underrated. If a team ranked outside the top 30 makes NXN only to bring up the rear, that just shows that the region as a whole is weaker. I agree that Flower Mound definitely had an argument this year (the same one that gave the Saratoga girls an at-large last year despite a poor performance with Chmiel sick at regionals). However, recent Texas history is not as impressive as you make it seem.
It's funny you use one year where a Texas team was ranked 22nd in the overall national rankings, yet, they finished 11th.
Better yet, another year you used a Texas team finished 14th despite being ranked 29th. That's a huge gap.
Oh? wrote:
I don't think the committee cares where Dyestat has teams ranked, nor Milesplit or any other rankings out there. Any of those rankings are not necessarily going to be representative of what the NXN Committee believes.
Texas teams have been overrated, and Texas teams have been underrated, same as any region. Maybe not by Dyestat or Milesplit lately, but it's happened in the past. Pretty sure Dyestat had Cedar Park ranked #1 for most of the season in 2009 when watchout was doing the rankings. I don't remember where they were ranked on the eve of NXN but they finished #11. Seems like he did the same with The Woodlands a couple years, and some of the Southlake Carroll girls teams.
I'm not sure what your point is about teams from outside of Texas qualifying from the South. Texas is home to the regional meet, has always been clearly the strongest state in the NXN region and probably the whole FLS region, so why would it be surprising or a concern that pretty much all the teams that qualify are from Texas? As for your question, though, it was probably Rogers AR in 2007. I think Arkansas had another team that qualified or almost qualified one year (Bentonville?), but sure it's usually a near clean sweep for Texas schools among the Top 4. Other regions have pretty dominant states as well: Minnesota in the Heartland, Illinois in the Midwest, Virginia in the Southeast, New Jersey in the Northeast, Washington (boys only) in the Northwest have typically dominated their regions as well.
The Woodlands 2017 finished fourth in their region. If they were to get an invite, it would have to be after El Paso Eastwood also got an invite. Did the South deserve two at-large invites that year? Flower Mound finished #14 and solidly mid-pack and Southlake Carroll finished #19 and well out of the running. Should the South have gotten At-Large spots at the expense of the Southwest (#21 and #8 by order of NXN finish) or California (#9)? You could argue the Southeast spot (#22), but that alone wouldn't have be enough to include Texas 6A Champion The Woodlands and what about the other teams that were left home that might have been able to do better (MW#3 Lyons Township IL, for example)?
True to your name on here, "the truth hurtz", and the truth is that there are a lot of teams that have arguments, and sometimes good teams get left out, but the South hasn't been unfairly overlooked/excluded any more than other regions.
It's funny you mention a ranking from 9 years ago... but in regards to it, the year Cedar Park finished 11th--- yes, but that would mean Boerne and The Woodlands were underrated, considering Boerne finished 1st and The Woodlands finished 3rd (both Texas teams)... I'm not sure how Cedar Park was ranked #1 nationally, when I remember The Woodlands winning the state meet that year, but anyways.
You're using how SLC and FM finished in 2017 as basis why the Woodlands shouldn't have gotten an invite. My point was TWL had a bad day at the regional meet. They were a very good team that year, and bombed out, despite winning the state meet against those two teams and being undefeated that season (including another easy win over Flower Mound earlier in the season). This is the 2nd year in a row, that the Texas team that won arguably the most important meet in Texas does not make it to nationals. Last year, I felt they were a top 10 finishing team at their best.
Texas blows. Boys finished 20th and 22nd. Girls 18th and 20th. Entire South Region is the worst region.
The majority of Texas programs look at NXN as a reward meet...and race like it.
Nothing wrong with that. Teams in Colorado, California, NY, and Illinois take it more seriously.
Our district meets are October 13th or earlier. And all the top teams are condensed into around 4-6 districts, so there is no holding back.
You're talking about being at or close to peak shape for about 6-7 weeks! It just isn't reasonable.
To give you an idea of how crazy it is:
-Woodlands boys didnt win district but won state
-coppell girls were 4th in region and won state
Neither qualified for nxn.
Why? You have to pick and choose. District to NXN South is 5 weeks apart.
I do know one thing - track times are skewed in some states. If there is ever a Texas team with 4 girls who run sub 1040 3200, they'll easily win nationals. I see California teams not doing that. Surprises me.
El Paso Eastwood got an at-large bid this year
Texas has an at-large team wrote:
El Paso Eastwood got an at-large bid this year
It's sad, because this is a year I don't feel like they deserved it.
The only TX team I think that would have deserved an at-large bid is the Flower Mound girls, but they don't have their #1 runner so I say it's okay that they didn't.
I'm still certain the Woodlands deserved it back in 2017, and maybe 2018 as well. 2017 I was certain they would have finished top 10.
the truth hurtzzz wrote:
Texas has an at-large team wrote:
El Paso Eastwood got an at-large bid this year
It's sad, because this is a year I don't feel like they deserved it.
The only TX team I think that would have deserved an at-large bid is the Flower Mound girls, but they don't have their #1 runner so I say it's okay that they didn't.
I'm still certain the Woodlands deserved it back in 2017, and maybe 2018 as well. 2017 I was certain they would have finished top 10.
The Woodlands finished 4th at NXR both in 2017 and 2018. 4th place teams are not allowed to enter NXN unless a 3rd place team from the same region is selected.
Texas has an at-large team wrote:
El Paso Eastwood got an at-large bid this year
The question is why did they get an at-large? Their speed ratings are significantly lower than other potential teams and they were dead last at NXN in 2018. Clearly the committee doesn't pick the best teams. Lots of politics behind the scenes.
Jesuit is ahead of El Paso scored through their top 1 runner, top 2, top 3, top 4, top 5 and Jesuit would win if it went to the 6th man on tiebreaker. It's not close, yet Jesuit is staying home.
Here's El Paso's speed ratings from their last race.
Juan Olmos 185
Elias Perez 184
Nathan Hernandez 175
Victor Parra 169
Sergio Leon Cuartas 166
Andres Gurrola 156
Victor Anchondo 145
Then you've got Jesuit from CA
Matt Strangio 197
Spencer Pickren 180
Michael Chambers 180
Jacob Swanson 172
Braden King 171
Nicholas Salonites 171
Chase Gordon 156